[hasufell]

Upstream is unreliable. They don't regularly provide (working) tarballs, but a buggy, closed-source updater instead, thus breaking compatibility with _any_ linux package manager out there.

Users are already complaining, doing weird workarounds and get frustrated because your updater does not work as it should, does not allow to build from source, does not allow for the package manager to manage the files and installation in an appropriate manner, thus reducing QA, security and user experience.

When I asked about the tarballs (about 5 times or so) I never got an appropriate answer. This makes me think you do not care about distributors and the user at that end. If that is the case, then I will stop working with you too and stop supporting urbanterror for any gentoo user.

It took already a fair amount of rant for you to provide tarballs for 4.2 and now you have stopped doing it again. I am not interested in jumping in here every few releases, because the situation got worse again. It's wasting my time.

If I am wrong about your attitude, then I apologize. But that has to be proven yet.

[JerryBeansMan]

The heart of Linux distros are their package managers. I hope the Frozen Sand devs will understand the frustration of Linux users at the poor integration.

[|HSO|havok]

Thanks for your comments hasufell, I would suggest for the future that you provide constructive feedback rather than pointed comments at the development team as it will be much better received.

With regards to the updater, we are currently trying to make the updater as streamlined as possible so that it works across all platforms with as little extra management as possible. This leaves the developers with more time to work on the game itself.

Using a closed source updater gives a lot of advantages, but we are aware of a number of issues which is why a full .zip file of the game content is provided as well. As the updater is developed more it will provide a stable system for us to move forward and allow us to offer far more advanced services for all platforms. Once we have achieved this, then integration with linux package managers, creation of windows installers, etc will be far more straight-forward.

We are aware of performance issues with the speeds on the updater, this is being looked into and we hope for it to be resolved for the next update.
Also to note that there is a generic tarball on the downloads section of the website which was updated just before the release of 4.2.10.

[JerryBeansMan]

Hi Havok, thank you for your cordial reply. I am glad to learn that integration with package managers is at least on the todo list.

Having the latest 4.2 in package managers will help ensure that anyone playing 4.2 is on the latest release. This is very important because the servers are nearly dead with lack of players.

I looked for the generic tarball in the downloads section but all I found was a tarball of the updater. Have I overlooked it? I did see the full install zip. I imagine that contains the necessary files for packaging - Is that correct, hasufell, all?

This post has been edited by jerrybeansman: 04 April 2013 - 02:20 AM

[[#!]PureFilth]

havok, on 04 April 2013 - 01:04 AM, said:

Thanks for your comments hasufell, I would suggest for the future that you provide constructive feedback rather than pointed comments at the development team as it will be much better received
[...]
Once we have achieved this, then integration with linux package managers, creation of windows installers, etc will be far more straight-forward.
[...]
Also to note that there is a generic tarball on the downloads section of the website which was updated just before the release of 4.2.10.

This is absolute f*****g gold. Come on Havok, you're smarter and better then this, who told you to write this? Scratch that, if you didn't I've got a fair idea who did.

[hasufell]

havok, on 04 April 2013 - 01:04 AM, said:

Thanks for your comments hasufell, I would suggest for the future that you provide constructive feedback rather than pointed comments at the development team as it will be much better received.

Constructive feedback: Care more about distributions. They deliver YOUR software to the end-user, in the only way that is appropriate, unless you know all the details of rpm specs, gentoo ebuilds, archlinux pkgbuilds etc pp.
Do I have to explain why these users will ALWAYS choose these packages instead of your updater? I think I already mentioned a few: QA, security, trust, easiness, control.

havok, on 04 April 2013 - 01:04 AM, said:

With regards to the updater, we are currently trying to make the updater as streamlined as possible so that it works across all platforms with as little extra management as possible. This leaves the developers with more time to work on the game itself.

That does not make sense. The tarball does not require any coding, so if you stopped developing on the updater, that leaves you with more time to work on the game itself.

havok, on 04 April 2013 - 01:04 AM, said:

Using a closed source updater gives a lot of advantages, but we are aware of a number of issues which is why a full .zip file of the game content is provided as well.

How about trust?

havok, on 04 April 2013 - 01:04 AM, said:

As the updater is developed more it will provide a stable system for us to move forward and allow us to offer far more advanced services for all platforms. Once we have achieved this, then integration with linux package managers, creation of windows installers, etc will be far more straight-forward.

Services? I have no idea what you are talking about.
Also I have to remind you, that your updater is and will never be compatible with linux package managers. Are you aware of that? Are you aware that this is the same reason why steam is incompatible with package managers?

havok, on 04 April 2013 - 01:04 AM, said:

We are aware of performance issues with the speeds on the updater, this is being looked into and we hope for it to be resolved for the next update.

So you are wasting time on the updater again instead of working on the game?

havok, on 04 April 2013 - 01:04 AM, said:

Also to note that there is a generic tarball on the downloads section of the website which was updated just before the release of 4.2.10.

Sorry, but that is not correct. The release was not yesterday. When you released 4.2.010 there was NO tarball. After a few days there was a BROKEN tarball. The tarball which is now available was added just now.

[SilverFoxZ]

No need to be so rude.

[Mod ObScUrE]

^that, or you will lose your privilege to post here.

[hasufell]

ObScUrE, on 04 April 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

^that, or you will lose your privilege to post here.

rude? where? Now you want to silence people who point out problems?

[JerryBeansMan]

havok, on 04 April 2013 - 01:04 AM, said:

...Using a closed source updater gives a lot of advantages...

I fully realize that Frozen Sand is not GNU or some sort of free (as in speech) software group. However, I am curious what advantages, if any, you are reffering to. I can understand wanting to keep your up and coming anti-cheat code closed source but a download manager?

Quote

...
Also to note that there is a generic tarball on the downloads section of the website which was updated just before the release of 4.2.10.

jerrybeansman, on 04 April 2013 - 02:16 AM, said:

I looked for the generic tarball in the downloads section but all I found was a tarball of the updater.

Have I overlooked it?

I did see the full install zip.

I imagine that contains the necessary files for packaging - Is that correct, hasufell, all?

^
Sorry about the giant red text but I feel like this question was not noticed previously.

SilverFoxZ, on 04 April 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

No need to be so rude.

ObScUrE, on 04 April 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

^that, or you will lose your privilege to post here.

Where did these comments come from? These are real issues. I don't see any flaming or personal attacks occuring. This is really valuable feedback for Frozen Sand, at least I certainly hope it is perceived that way. Please don't confuse constructive criticism with baseless trolling.

This post has been edited by jerrybeansman: 04 April 2013 - 08:59 PM