[KroniK]

Hey guys,

So I was wondering, has there been any discussion of developing a tutorial for newbies which would cover basic circle jumping, crouch sliding, weapon changing, shooting, grenades etc? I would obviously see this as something completely optional, but basically set up a single player course which would take newbies through the basics?

Because UrT is such a niche shooter with very specific mechanics, it is not always easy to explain to newbies how to gain speed when circle jumping etc. A tutorial that was able to force a player to correctly complete several objectives based on movement and shooting, etc. would be very useful. I would really like to see this be something that is automatically downloaded as a default map with the game as well as a tutorial button in the main menu which might actually split up into a couple of different tutorials covering different basic topics.



Somewhat lengthy rant/discussion starter:

While I don't want to see the mechanics of Urban Terror change much when it makes the jump from 4.3 to HD, and I would like to see lots of new players join up when this game becomes available on steam, I have a hard time believing that many will choose to stay after a few months. There is a lot of nuanced tricks that go into circle jumping and the movement through a map when playing UrT and none of them are explained anywhere in the game or on some sort of official game tutorial.

I remember getting so frustrated when I first downloaded UrT, because there were people moving at light speed all around me, and none of them could explain how they were moving that fast. It finally took having someone walk me through a jump map for me to finally "get" how to circle jump and how to move fluidly in the game.

Currently the best thing we have is happy jump tutorials. Which while it is very useful, you have to find it, download it, and play it alone without anyone to help, or you have to find a server that is playing it and hope someone there can help you out etc.

This is where I see the need for a tutorial. Urban Terror needs SOMETHING that comes with the game that explains some of these things, shows how to do them from 3rd person view as well as 1st person view, and then provides a way for the player to practice in a safe environment where they don't have the pressure of having to shoot things as well.

In conclusion, I think Urban Terror NEEDS some form of tutorial in order to keep players attention, especially new players who have never experienced quake physics.

[Ntr]

Why do you people like to complicate things.
Best way to learn how to slide or jump is by playing the game. I see no need for "tutorials" and to be honest if i downloaded a game that i had to watch a tutorial first in order to learn how to play it i would instantly uninstall it.

No tutorial has ever kept players interested in the game. It's the gameplay and fun factor that keep games alive.
Not tutorials, those that can't grasp the concept of wall jumps, power slides and so on, will lose interest quickly anyway, no tutorial will change that.

[thelionroars]

Some tutorial videos on movement especially would be a great idea. I can't forget someone reviewing Urban Terror on Youtube not long ago and they went through the game and discarded it without even seeing anyone else perform the unique movements. There was also a beginning tutorial demo in versions prior to 4.2, didn't seem to adversely affect player numbers at all.

[wG*Swiiitan]

Titanfall had a pretty good tutorial, they could make something simular to that :)

[Mod Iye]

this discussion seems to come back every now and then since 4.2.

i got to say i didnt watch the tutorial demo when i started playing. (that was sometime in the early 4.1 days)
this had 2 major reasons:
a) demos cancel on nearly every keypress by default, which made me quite the "tutorial" at an instant, because i assumed it to be somehow interactive. then the demo was kind of hidden in the demo menu, and if you didnt knew it was there, you would click the button.
b) i in general dislike tutorials.

some games need tutorials as they are way more complicated than simple movements. those in game tutorials, that step by step introduce even the UI elements help with that (surely that isnt really an idea for UrT).


So yeah. we probably need something like a tutorial map.
i did one some time go: click me
it surely lacks some timings for the bigtexts and stuff, but its a basic concept.

This post has been edited by Iye: 02 September 2015 - 01:34 PM

[KroniK]

@ntr

Telling someone to just "Figure it out" is bullshit. Circle jumping is confusing for anyone used to COD or CS or any other shooter on the planet besides quake. I'll tell you from experience that the "Gameplay and fun factor" is virtually zero in this game when you watch people fly around the map and no one can explain how they are doing it, and you just keep getting killed cause you are so much slower than everyone else. learning the basic game mechanics should be covered for newbies who want to learn. Im not saying make it mandatory or anything, just provide a way to teach the basic skills to people who want to know how the game mechanics work. I always use tutorials on all the games I play because I want to understand how the game is meant to be played before I just jump in blind.

@Iye

I think the idea of demos for 4.2 or 4.3 are stupid. I posted this in the HD thread because I want to see something like this developed for HD which doesn't have all the limitations of 4.X. Using the Unreal Engine provides so many opportunities to improve the experience for everyone who plays the game. One of the areas that I think could really use some improvement is explaining how to play the game to newbies. Many people would go through a quick tutorial to learn the basics, and I think that players who better understand the movement mechanics will overall stay with UrT longer than those who simply get frustrated with not being able to use game mechanics that others are using.

I would like to see a tutorial map that comes default with the game and has its own menu option which would launch you directly into the tutorial. This way newbies have easy access to understanding the game mechanics.

[Mod Iye]

yeah. i just figured this is the HD section.
that doesnt change much about my opinion on tutorials though. We need a playable tutorail. but a fast one. shouldnt take more than 5, hell maybe even 3 minutes. One surely doesnt need a tutorial on weapon recoil ("fire in short bursts") or something that teaches you all movement keys one after another ("press W to move forward")
It basically should give you all the important information on rather successful teamplay (e.g. medic) and the basic gameplay elements (basically regarding movement).

And there we get to a point where tutorial videos might actually be more usefull. you cant really build a circlejump/whatever tutorial. because it either would totaly miss the point, as you need to scale it down so anyone would complete it on the 2nd try, or it would be pretty hard, turning down half the people at the tutorial. For those advanced movements, it might be quite correct to mention them in a tutorial ("you can get across this hallway faster with circlejumping"), but surely not require them.

Also a tutorial should mention something like "learn to use your environment" (walljumps are possible anywhere,...)

concerning the placement of the tutorial ingame: i think something like the popup that comes up when you havent set a name in UrT in 4.x versions with a tutorial button (or not in the case of 4.2) would be just adequate. a direct tutorial button in the main menu, weighted the same as "Play Online" seems a little too much. Or a button that would disappear once you taken the tutorial (or set a variable in a cfg). You could even do this in 4.x

[KroniK]

That's about what I was thinking Iye.

Overall I was envisioning a small jump map with some bots/targets. The start would be a quick intro to the HUD, explain stamina, force the player to fall off a ledge and take damage, explain how to heal, make the player shoot a bot/target, then move on to the second part which is movement. Explain sprinting, explain circle jumping, and force player to jump across a gap that is just a bit too wide to be jumped with normal sprint, Explain crouch slide and have a player crouch slide under a wall, explain ledge climb, have player jump and ledge climb, explain walljump and have player wall jump and ledge climb. Then a quick explanation of shooting vs jump maps and tutorial done.

[Fredrik]

KroniK, on 04 September 2015 - 01:02 AM, said:

Telling someone to just "Figure it out" is bullshit. Circle jumping is confusing for anyone used to COD or CS or any other shooter on the planet besides quake. I'll tell you from experience that the "Gameplay and fun factor" is virtually zero in this game when you watch people fly around the map and no one can explain how they are doing it, and you just keep getting killed cause you are so much slower than everyone else.

Even with a tutorial, you still need practice.

You be slower than everyone else even with a tutorial. The "fun factor" isn't gone just because you don't start skilled. That's like saying "WoW is not fun because I don't start max level with the best gear".

I started playing UrT with no prior FPS experience. My first game mode was CTF, I started by spectating then auto joined. This is what went through my mind.
"The goal is to cap the flag, but I'm too slow. I be of better use by defending". So I equipped LR, DE, helm, kevlar, medkit.

The first time I healed someone, I realized they could'nt sidestep so I started holding Q while alternating W and S. This way I healed without blocking.

The game was so much more than capturing the flag. I had fun because I played a role that fully utilized my skills. I wasn't fast but as a defender that wasn't necessary. I denied the other team taking our flag and provided my team with health.

That's how I played CTF, while learning jumping on jumpmap servers.

This post has been edited by Fredrik: 05 September 2015 - 11:28 AM

[Mod Iye]

Quote

The first time I healed someone, I realized they could'nt sidestep [..] This way I healed without blocking.

This surely is something no one would try and teach in a tutorial. It is something one would figure out while playing. (worst case scenario are some unfriendly teammates here...)

And yeah, that's just how i started into FPS. On UrT with no prior experience and canceling the tutorial demo on the 1st keypress. (i started with TDM though)
The point is, surely everything should be figured out by the player. learning something is fun after all. But that's no reason to NOT tell someone who starts with the game or even FPS in general, about basic concepts. It is rather important to at least tell people that they can walljump, crouch and medic.
Surely all of those, except for walljump, which makes this even more necessary for a tutorial, can be figured by simple taking a glance at the options menu, BUT it appears that everyone just pops into games without ever checking the options menu first these days.