[KroniK]

On the topic of game types.

I think that a 1 flag CTF mode would be a better game type for competitive play than the current CTF game type. There are several things which single flag CTF fixes and very few problems that it creates. Let me give a quick overview for those that are not very familiar with single flag CTF.

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Overview:

Two teams have fixed spawns on opposite sides of the map. There is a flag placed in the middle of the map where the time to get from the flag to each spawn is about equal. The players must then take the flag and get it to their teams capture zone, which is located near the ENEMY spawn. If the flag carrier dies, then the flag is dropped and never moves until it is picked up. The only time the flag goes back to the start position is after a capture. In the case that neither team is able to actually get a cap, the team who is able to push the flag the closest to the capture point wins.

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Pros

• No situation where the flag holder can't possibly cap because the enemy has your flag.
  
• No camping in the spawn with the player holding the flag waiting for your team to go recover the flag.
  
• Flag is always moving and requires strategy adjustments if it ends up in a side lane on the map.
  
• Speed and aggression as the flag holder is rewarded.
  
• Players must move the flag to win, so it discourages camping.
  
• Very little chance for stalemate games where neither flag moves.
  
• Most existing maps could be set up to make this game mode work well.
  
• Would be very exciting to cast since there would always be action and the flag would always be moving.

Cons

• It's new, and its hard to get old players to like new stuff even if its better.
  
• There could be some incentives to camp your capture area however this will only deny points and not allow you to gain points
  
• Really even teams could end up with no captures which could be not as exciting for spectators
  
• Small possibility of someone grabbing the flag and then running and hiding.

The only major issue I see is that this game mode would be even worse for 24 slot servers than the current CTF game mode. However, I can see that it would be amazing with matchmaking on 10 or 12 slot servers. I think 5v5 or 6v6 would be the ideal size but it would take some playtesting to determine the ideal team size.

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The most important thing about this game type is going to be the map design and how the locations of the spawns/flag/capture points are balanced. The maps will have to be balanced to make this game mode work, but once things are pretty dialed in, I think this has the potential to be the best game mode for this game.

Overall I honestly think that 1 flag CTF should replace the current CTF but I know so many players that would just refuse to play if their beloved CTF is changed like that.

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Other Gameplay Mechanics (Ideas)

Rounds:
Instead of the current time limit or score limit based games of CTF, I think a much more interesting way to go would be the introduction of rounds. Each round would have a time limit of say 3 minutes. The round is then over as soon as either the flag is captured or when the timer runs out (whichever team got closest to the capture point wins). So then a game/match would be the first team to win 6 rounds and the sides switch every 5 rounds to provide each team the chance to play on both sides.

One benefit of doing rounds, is that when the flag resets, so do the teams. This way the team that is about to cap can't just send someone to camp the flag respawn spot to give them the advantage.

TS/CTF tiebreaker:
One really cool option is to introduce a bit of Team Survivor if neither team is able to capture the flag. At the end of a round, when the time runs out, all respawns stop. Then its the first team to capture the flag OR eliminate the entire enemy team that wins the round. You could also remove the flag at the end to provide a pure TS tiebreaker, although I think having an objective would stop the camping that is common in TS.

This post has been edited by KroniK: 21 July 2016 - 10:35 PM

[KroniK]

I threw together some concepts on how some of our existing maps could be laid out for 1 flag CTF. This should give you a better idea of what I was thinking.

http://imgur.com/a/KhsWM

This post has been edited by KroniK: 21 July 2016 - 10:16 PM

[FS Zenity]

One flag CTF is essentially tug of war. You have two teams bashing into each other until one overwhelms the other long enough to make a cap. I honestly don't think it's as much fun to play or watch as you expect it to be, but if there's enough demand for it there wouldn't be much harm in adding it as a hidden gamemode option eventually so you can see for yourself. It could be good for small-scale matches, like 2on2 or 3on3.

Also anytime you have a "doesn't move until picked up" mechanic, there is a high chance that the item becomes inaccessible. That can be acceptable in a round based mode, but not when this would essentially end the match right there. That's one of the reasons why flags reset shortly after dropped in CTF. You could probably get away with a fairly long reset time though. But even then, consider this scenario: Team A figures out a spot where they can crater leaving the flag in a spot which can't be reached otherwise. Team A goes on to lead the match 1:0. One member goes to crater with the flag, to make it unreachable. Every few seconds, like Lemmings, another member of Team A craters on the flag to touch it and reset the counter. This could possibly be avoided by requiring the flag to be held for a certain duration before the counter resets, but you see there are a lot of edge cases to consider.

[fr.Biddle]

KroniK, on 05 July 2016 - 05:33 PM, said:

Not sure what you are talking about. Uptown was the only map that got updated with 4.2. Both turnpike and casa are exactly the same and were never touched.

With the 4.2 release, a handful of new maps were added (Bohemia, Cascade, Ghosttown, Killroom, Prominence, Raiders, etc) and others were updated (Casa, Kingdom, Kingpin, Mandolin...). Regarding Casa, the update was done to fix several of its well-known glitches (here's one). The map layout, models and textures did not change, though, in the recompilation, the lighting did change, but that should be all. You can always refer to the release notes to find out about such things. Takes a lot of time to update the website contents, so let them be of use. Along with a few other maps, Uptown was indeed updated in the 4.1.1 release.

hydr0, on 05 July 2016 - 12:07 PM, said:

The hits will affect all players from pros to casuals. The higher damage input in groin and butt shots just creates random and luck shots. Nobody goes around aiming for someones groin or butt for a quick kill. (It is always the head)

The hit location's damage consistency is something we are looking in to and which is improved with 4.3. The damage in both groin and butt are reduced. There is already a first step made that you can test for yourself in the RC's (please find the current values here), and we are looking into pushing the nerf even further!

ringel, on 16 July 2016 - 12:30 AM, said:

- maybe you can change CTF in the following way: when both flags are taken: (0-5s) explosion -> reset. At first this might sound silly but give it a second thought. It forces the teams to be way more balanced in their play style and stops this tdm like situations where both teams hold the enemy's flag at the safest point possible.

First of all, except from public servers with 20+ players, hotpotato situation are in the end quite rare in CTF. What is interesting with them is that during that time, the goal changes. The defensive guys shouldn't be holding the same points, and whether should you play it full defence to freeze the caps or hard push your opponents to catch back on caps, can be quite interesting.

Nevertheless, what you are taking about, hotpotato timer is something that any server admin can already tweak by playing with the cvar: g_hotpotato. Concerning competitive play, you'd need to ask the leagues or make up your own with such settings.

KroniK, on 21 July 2016 - 08:44 PM, said:

I think that a 1 flag CTF mode [...]

A one flag CTF game mode is a totally different thing. It is interesting, but brings up a complete different objective and game situations. It's something that was already suggested years ago. Though, it was clearly presented as a different gametype compared to the current CTF mode we have.

Biddle, on 01 October 2012 - 04:59 AM, said:

Get the Treasure - (GT)

I was thinking of the kids game that we call in french "le béret" and thought that the mode could be really interesting on urt. It's a bit like CTF, but there's only one single flag (you can change that to any other object: "crown", "precious thing", "suitcase" etc). The goal of each team is to bring that flag back to the capture zone wich would be some spot in their spawn. Both teams spawn more or less at an equal distance from the flag and the battle begins. Of course it would need respawns, and if the flag carrier was not able to shoot it could be nice then the idea of materialising the flag with something else becomes important.
Idea: in this gametype, adding the possibility to have 3 or 4 teams instead of just 2 is where awsomness starts.
Idea2: you could even just make it team carrying the "treasure" accumulates points, so the goal would just be to carry it.
Idea3: if Idea2 works, we can even make that available in an FFA style too.
[...]

Just to make it clear for everyone as several people have shared some concerns about the orientation Urban Terror might be taking after reading this thread : when people are presenting ideas or concepts in their posts, they are and stay ideas. As they state it when doing so, their words remain their own opinion. It does not mean that our new Urban Terror HD will be taking that route necessarily. Don't be afraid to lose the awesome CTF or TS game play we currently have in Urban Terror 4, of course there will certainly be some changes and improvements, but much will be based on your direct feedback and opinion.

[fr.Biddle]

BladeKiller, on 06 July 2016 - 07:54 PM, said:

Our players used to like a variety in the values of these hit zones (and more of them) so we thought people would still like it. We used to have waist, neck, and internal organs like lungs many years ago. Some of these were very small and hard to hit and the old crowd liked that but the new doesn't. I think the fewer hit zones is pretty boring...

For the record, I digged around to share with you guys what it was like in prior Urban Terror 4 versions.

Here's the wonderful (or crazy?) neck hit:

[Mod Iye]

Biddle, on 26 July 2016 - 10:54 PM, said:

Here's the wonderful (or crazy?) neck hit:

Oh god. imagine what that would be right now...
People already claim that the existence of groin lowers the skill requirements and stuff.
Now consider what would happen if we had 50% neck hits... :P

[KroniK]

WOW! I forgot how bad the scoreboard on the right used to look. FS might be a bit on the slow side, but I'm glad you guys are constantly improving the game, and making it better in all of its aspects.

[fr.Biddle]

And... the team overlay was only updated in one of the very last versions of 4.2, so it's not that old :P

[hydr0]

Iye, on 26 July 2016 - 11:14 PM, said:

Oh god. imagine what that would be right now...
People already claim that the existence of groin lowers the skill requirements and stuff.
Now consider what would happen if we had 50% neck hits... :P

Neck 50% damage hit was probably ok back in those days since everyone played on 20 fps and they were never able to kill each other without that handicap =P

What's ironic and funny at the same time with 4.1 was that people always complained about "bad hits" but this "feature" actually made the game more competitive and fun as the skill ceiling were made higher. The high tier players were invincible and the superior gun won the gun fights due to it requiring longer precision on the target for the kill.

In 4.2 any noob can kill anyone on sight due to simpler hit detection and OP groin/butt shots.

[Fenix]

Biddle, on 27 July 2016 - 11:39 PM, said:

And... the team overlay was only updated in one of the very last versions of 4.2, so it's not that old :P

Just because convincing the team to perform the update took > 2years