The main reason we defend our rights enshrined in our "silly" constitution is to prevent them being erroded in the face of tyrannical goverment... it seems to have worked so far.... *cough* capitulation of mainland Europe to Germany*cough*
Sometime not doing anything is the wrong choice my little clog wearing friend
You fail to grasp that there is only one super power left, and without us the western world would be at the mercy of every tinpot MF with a blackmarket soviet Nuke.
Liberal values do belong with the moral and spiritual downfall of my country.. I don't expect you to be aware or even care of the clinton legacy and the Democratic Partys agenda... but I digress...
As I said before you have the problem we don't... I am within the laws set forth in my country to own firearms I choose to. I have been sceened and passed thru licencing...
I know you will never except or respect my rights, those that cry about civil libertys never do
Goat
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MultiQuote#32 Guest_FemFatal
Posted 20 April 2004 - 10:47 PM
Yes originally owning a gun in america was for only two real reasons. One was to gain food by hunting and killing it or starve, it was a wild here once.
THe other reason and main reason for owning a gun was because the people who founded this country had to fight off a king who had decided he was in charge. Most of the weapons at that time were guns people used to hunt with and were pressed into service to gain independance from England. So it was very fresh in their minds just how important it was to keep weapons at home.
One other thing you might notice, even in Europe, England and Canada you can still own and possess guns though it's is extramly hard to do. In other countries where guns are out right banned from the public you also see extreem repression and abuse of power. The first way to control the people in a dictatorship is to make damn sure they can't hunt you down and remove you from power.
THe other reason and main reason for owning a gun was because the people who founded this country had to fight off a king who had decided he was in charge. Most of the weapons at that time were guns people used to hunt with and were pressed into service to gain independance from England. So it was very fresh in their minds just how important it was to keep weapons at home.
One other thing you might notice, even in Europe, England and Canada you can still own and possess guns though it's is extramly hard to do. In other countries where guns are out right banned from the public you also see extreem repression and abuse of power. The first way to control the people in a dictatorship is to make damn sure they can't hunt you down and remove you from power.
#33
TwentySeven 
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former FS member
Lead Engine Developer
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Posted 21 April 2004 - 12:03 PM
Frankly, based on americas history (all of america, not just the USA), I can understand the reasoning behind constitutionally legislating the right to bare arms for the citizenry. I feel its stupid not to, tbh.
What I think the issue may be is the easy availability of small arms/concealable arms in the USA. I mean, its a heck of a lot harder to hide an AR in your pants walking down main-street, then a nice semi-auto 9mm. That might also explain the stupidly-high gun-crimes rate in the no-guns states of the USA, because they're so easy to get an hours drive away but you're not "supposed to", your average "ma and pa joe" home owner isn't going to have one but your average punk is.
In Australia (my country) we have gun crimes, but damn, no where near on the level of similarly populated US cities. I think its the same situation in canada and england.
As for wether home owners having guns is a deterent, I can agree with that, - because the police certainly are not. Criminals do not do a crime thinking about getting caught. And cops take forever to turn up after a crime has occured, they're certainly not going to bound through the door and save you during a robbery.
If all home owners had a shotgun or AR, I'd be very unlikely to want to go into that house, I guess.
So maybe thats the compromise for the USA? Make getting a pistol extremely hard, keep getting a decent rifle easy?
Eh, what do I know.
I do think its funny that the NRA was formed in the same year the KKK was outlawed, however.
What I think the issue may be is the easy availability of small arms/concealable arms in the USA. I mean, its a heck of a lot harder to hide an AR in your pants walking down main-street, then a nice semi-auto 9mm. That might also explain the stupidly-high gun-crimes rate in the no-guns states of the USA, because they're so easy to get an hours drive away but you're not "supposed to", your average "ma and pa joe" home owner isn't going to have one but your average punk is.
In Australia (my country) we have gun crimes, but damn, no where near on the level of similarly populated US cities. I think its the same situation in canada and england.
As for wether home owners having guns is a deterent, I can agree with that, - because the police certainly are not. Criminals do not do a crime thinking about getting caught. And cops take forever to turn up after a crime has occured, they're certainly not going to bound through the door and save you during a robbery.
If all home owners had a shotgun or AR, I'd be very unlikely to want to go into that house, I guess.
So maybe thats the compromise for the USA? Make getting a pistol extremely hard, keep getting a decent rifle easy?
Eh, what do I know.
I do think its funny that the NRA was formed in the same year the KKK was outlawed, however.
#34 Guest_[n*e*r*d*].SplitKick
Posted 21 April 2004 - 01:35 PM
Quote
The main reason we defend our rights enshrined in our "silly" constitution is to prevent them being erroded in the face of tyrannical goverment... it seems to have worked so far.... *cough* capitulation of mainland Europe to Germany*cough*
Sometime not doing anything is the wrong choice my little clog wearing friend
You fail to grasp that there is only one super power left, and without us the western world would be at the mercy of every tinpot MF with a blackmarket soviet Nuke.
Liberal values do belong with the moral and spiritual downfall of my country.. I don't expect you to be aware or even care of the clinton legacy and the Democratic Partys agenda... but I digress...
As I said before you have the problem we don't... I am within the laws set forth in my country to own firearms I choose to. I have been sceened and passed thru licencing...
I know you will never except or respect my rights, those that cry about civil libertys never do
Sometime not doing anything is the wrong choice my little clog wearing friend
You fail to grasp that there is only one super power left, and without us the western world would be at the mercy of every tinpot MF with a blackmarket soviet Nuke.
Liberal values do belong with the moral and spiritual downfall of my country.. I don't expect you to be aware or even care of the clinton legacy and the Democratic Partys agenda... but I digress...
As I said before you have the problem we don't... I am within the laws set forth in my country to own firearms I choose to. I have been sceened and passed thru licencing...
I know you will never except or respect my rights, those that cry about civil libertys never do
Nice rethoric, but you still dodged my questions.
#35
Goat (old)
- Joined: 07-February 04
- Posts: 422
- LocationIndiana
Posted 21 April 2004 - 03:15 PM
No Nerd you choose not to see the truth in my answer.
27, I would even go along with that premise, except the gangsta with the 9mm wouldn't care if it was illegal or not.
As for the NRA... Yes there has been some unfortunate linkage with the scum in the KKK, but its really the only game in town for gunowners rights... I live in Indiana home of the Grand Wizard, funny the perception was of southern yokels not a Yankee Bussiness man...
Ask AGBD on his view too...
27, I would even go along with that premise, except the gangsta with the 9mm wouldn't care if it was illegal or not.
As for the NRA... Yes there has been some unfortunate linkage with the scum in the KKK, but its really the only game in town for gunowners rights... I live in Indiana home of the Grand Wizard, funny the perception was of southern yokels not a Yankee Bussiness man...
Ask AGBD on his view too...
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#36
TwentySeven
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former FS member
Lead Engine Developer
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Posted 21 April 2004 - 04:09 PM
Yeah, but then you've made it harder for the gangsta to get the 9mm to begin with, moving it into the higher level crimes, not something his brother picked up from wal-mart. 
"ganstas" are going to have those guns wether they're legal or not, no matter where you live or what the laws are.
But I mean hey, reducing the number of concealed weapons on the street can only be a good thing right? So long as its not lessening you of the right or ability to defend your home, and god forbid theres ever another civil war or invasion, defend your "liberty".
Ah well.
"ganstas" are going to have those guns wether they're legal or not, no matter where you live or what the laws are.But I mean hey, reducing the number of concealed weapons on the street can only be a good thing right? So long as its not lessening you of the right or ability to defend your home, and god forbid theres ever another civil war or invasion, defend your "liberty".
Ah well.
#37 Guest_Annihilator
Posted 21 April 2004 - 04:28 PM
Yeah, less guns means less people getting shot (especially concealed weapons). I know some people think that if the bag guys have the guns, they need to have one too so they can protect themselves. Unfortunatly, you are a lot more likely to be shot if you're carrying a gun than if not.
#38
EnDYmiON
Posted 21 April 2004 - 08:43 PM
I keep hearing all this bashing of the constitution. Its actually an amendment to the Constitution that says that, but it is VERY vague about it.
So basically a militia (armed force) and the right for citizens to own weapons are not to be tampered with. Anyways...The Amendments aren't bad...free speech, fair speedy trial, no search and siezure without just cause, women can vote, slavery is illegal. Lots of other stuff. =p
Anyways, I wouldn't own a gun anyways so I exclude myself from that side of the aurgment...do what you wish.
Quote
Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
So basically a militia (armed force) and the right for citizens to own weapons are not to be tampered with. Anyways...The Amendments aren't bad...free speech, fair speedy trial, no search and siezure without just cause, women can vote, slavery is illegal. Lots of other stuff. =p
Anyways, I wouldn't own a gun anyways so I exclude myself from that side of the aurgment...do what you wish.
#39
VisionThing (old)
- Joined: 09-February 04
- Posts: 120
Posted 22 April 2004 - 12:37 AM
Quote
Yeah, but then you've made it harder for the gangsta to get the 9mm to begin with, moving it into the higher level crimes, not something his brother picked up from wal-mart. "ganstas" are going to have those guns wether they're legal or not, no matter where you live or what the laws are.
But I mean hey, reducing the number of concealed weapons on the street can only be a good thing right? So long as its not lessening you of the right or ability to defend your home, and god forbid theres ever another civil war or invasion, defend your "liberty".
Ah well.
"ganstas" are going to have those guns wether they're legal or not, no matter where you live or what the laws are.But I mean hey, reducing the number of concealed weapons on the street can only be a good thing right? So long as its not lessening you of the right or ability to defend your home, and god forbid theres ever another civil war or invasion, defend your "liberty".
Ah well.
The trouble is that your gangsta does buy his gun at Walmart even if he can. You by an untraceable model off the street on the black market. It that stays open for business even if you stopped selling any guns in the US.
Like in South Africa, most gun crimes are commited with an AK47, a weapon that has never been for sale in that country
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