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Urt Jumpers wanted Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   lurf Icon

  • Account: lurf
  • Joined: 15-July 11
  • Posts: 10

Posted 31 October 2012 - 12:42 PM

Hi there,
Just the other day I saw the topic "jumpers wanted". As a fanatic jumper and advocate of jump oriented gameplay/maps I was pleasantly surprised and excited. Furthermore I have written a rather extensive post related to jumping (updated and pasted below) about a year ago on which I have been waiting for a reply (longer than one sentence). So I wanted to reply to the jumpers wanted topic and try to get involved, but it's locked. And when I try to send a PM I get an error "undefined". So here's one more try. Since I am (and have been for about 10 years) very much engaged in Urt I would very much like to provide feedback, discuss and help develop Urt!

I'd like to express my views on Urt. As a fan I might add. I may be getting a bit off topic but what the heck, here goes.

FS Bladekiller wrote:
"I don't get it either. The community asked and asked for these old maps and then don't download them when released. These maps will not be in HD and after this I will ignore the whining over it since they have proven they don't really want these old maps anyway."

The fact that "you don't get it" tells me that maybe you are missing the unique selling point of your own game... Let's limit the discussion to Uptown here. Uptown is, as far as I'm concerned, the only map on which the unique gameplay mechanics that UrT has to offer really shine. Bunnyhopping, (wall)jumping, ledge grabbing, powersliding, curb stomping and booting are, in my opinion, core gameplay elements unique to UrT. Uptown integrates these elements like no other map. There's nothing sweeter than flying around that map shooting people from the sky (or shooting someone out of the sky for that matter). Or using walljumps to prolong your jumps or get up a building (specially when in pursuit or when being chased). I even use walljumps to fool people chasing me around a corner. I fly over their head and shoot them from behind. And how much more fun is booting if you can actually kick someone of a building and make them lemming. Curb stomping isn't even possible on maps without height. Granted, powersliding is maybe more of a ground based ability but I also use that to connect jumps (jump, powerslide, jump). On Uptown you can do all that, on maps like Casa or Turnpike you mostly just run around.

These possibilies on Uptown have been the sole reason I'm hosting my server and have been playing this game for 10 years. So yes I'm very sensitive about changes regarding Uptown, because if not for this map I wouldn't even be playing this game (the new uptown has quite some changes which make gameplay worse, which is one of the reasons I'm not hosting it). Without the aforementioned unique tactical gameplay Uptown has to offer I really don't care about Urt at all. I mean if I just want to walk around and shoot there are tons of better games out there. Yet I play them not so extensively as UrT because they lack this great gameplay. (Btw, I also feel strengthened in my argument by the fact that there are quite a few Uptown only servers out there. A setup introduced to great succes by yours truly.)

I really think gameplay wise this game has a lot of potential and personally I don't give a crap how beautiful HD will be. If it doesn't have Uptown or maps with similar gameplay then I'm not playing it. If however it does I think Urt could be a big hit all over again. Given the right team and finance I even think it could even be a huge commercial succes.

In the end what would be required is more maps like uptown, some weapon balance changes (Sr8 is too good right now, give it less ammo to start. HK needs a buff, especially squirrel damage!), some bug fixes, a better server browser and perhaps better hit detection. Removing the limit of 3 consecutive walljumps would also be good (let stamina be the limiting factor). Better graphics are always welcome but not so important, gameplay is all. It would also help if updates are downloaded ingame in order to make people update. Besides not wanting to give up Uptown 4.1 the reason I'm not hosting 4.1.1. is because many people don't have it. And when you connect with 4.1 to a 4.1.1. you can't join and don't get a message "please update". I'm sure there's much more to think of, these were just some initial idea's.

It is of course your choice to create the game the way you want it, and if this is what we get I can accept that. I am in fact very grateful for such a great free game. But if you want the game to really distuinguish itself and experience a growth in community I'd focus more on the aforementioned gameplay mechanics and supporting maps.



#2 User is offline   MajkiFajki Icon

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 01:03 PM

Well, I'm not gonna discuss gameplay changes you proposed, since there is a lot of them and this thread would be mess of "multi-topicness".

About Uptown-ish maps. Well, we need to explain here one important thing. ENGINE.

Vertical maps are big, "open-roofed" by definition. If for example such new level was created with level detail as we in FS consider as standard (many props, plants, and so on) - it would kill good ol' idtech3 engine. Way too many polygons and collision points for him to compute. As mapper's use to say - "box map".

In HD's engine - it's not a problem at all, since we model our levels now and we are not using native "building materials" - brushes.

And yes - we have vertical maps on our TO-DO list for HD - I do myself working on such level.

But for 99% it won't be included in 4.x branch due to technical reasons I described. Yes, some guys would get 125 FPS, sure. But not vast majority.

You really don't have to worry about vertical gaming in HD :smile:

#3 User is offline   KarlMariaSeeberg Icon

Posted 31 October 2012 - 01:48 PM

View PostMajkiFajki, on 31 October 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

You really don't have to worry about vertical gaming in HD :smile:

best urt hd news in a long time:)
if you don't like uptown, you are basically hating urban terror.

#5 User is offline   SilverFoxZ Icon

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:02 PM

View PostFrankie V, on 01 November 2012 - 05:30 AM, said:

The only person that I know who can pull off that bit of magic is a politician.

Haha awsome :D
I raise komodo dragons in my spare time

#6 User is offline   KarlMariaSeeberg Icon

Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:18 PM

View PostFrankie V, on 01 November 2012 - 05:30 AM, said:

Ahhhhh okeiii so what your saying is make UrT better but don't change anything?

The only person that I know who can pull off that bit of magic is a politician.

well, judging from your little speeches about urt being like baseball and your slippery way of giving answers to questions never asked you might just be the guy for us to vote for...

and don't troll lurf.. he didn't necro his initial thread where raider promised to answer a long time ago .. which he actually never did ...

the way i see it majki's response was everything we were looking for ... why didn't you just tell us about those plans in lurf's initial thread?
if you don't like uptown, you are basically hating urban terror.

#8 User is offline   xandaxs Icon

  •   mapper   
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Posted 02 November 2012 - 05:27 PM

If urt was only made out of uptown then noone would play this game, lol.
If you want to jump you've plenty of jump maps.

There needs to be a balanced between jumping and fragging, which exists in most regular maps if you are clever enough to find them

#10 User is offline   don Icon

  • Account: don
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Posted 04 November 2012 - 12:23 AM

View PostBladeKiller, on 03 November 2012 - 12:30 AM, said:

Lurf, I was saying that I didn't get why the community didn't want to download 4.1.1 with all the old maps they had been requesting. We did a lot of work to make those maps available and then they didn't want them when they were released. That's what I didn't get at the time. It had nothing to do with not getting the idea of maps like Uptown.

Most people DO have 4.1.1, actually. Aside from the new maps, though, there's no reason to have 4.1.1, unless you are a Thingley fan. Unfortunately, while Thingley is actually a pretty fun map, many people have FPS problems. I can't give you solid numbers, but from what I've observed in #pugbot when Thingley is played, probably 80% of people can join the game (and thus have 4.1.1), but 80% complain about FPS as well.;)
Also, op is wrong; you can join 4.1.1 servers with 4.1.

As for the 4.1.1 "new" maps, Ricochet wasn't a terribly popular map in its day. I can't explain why Docks doesn't get play time. I'll throw a vote in for it for FTW season 8 TS, since I always enjoyed it. The other "new" maps are Company (dunno what that is), Horror (it was never popular), and Herring (not an old map; however, it lags for many people). I'm not sure where you polled people for what some good old school maps were, but none of those are even memorable maps, with the exception of Docks. I think Ricochet looks really nice in 4.1.1 with the bumpy client, but it was never a map that played nice.

I do see a lot of people asking about Filtration (old school one, not the new one with the laggy waterfall), Commune, and Crenshaw. I did see a new version of Crenshaw, but it looked like one of those HorseAF copy paste maps.:/ Urban Terror really needs some solid CTF maps, and none of the ones released with 4.1.1 fit that bill. Honestly, none of those maps I suggested really need to be updated much. Just grab the 3.7 .bsp and repack them with any textures that aren't in 4.1. Leagues won't use the maps until there is an official release. I think there actually is a standalone Commune, but it could use some clipping on the window ledges and have some of the doors resized (just make the top level with the ceiling; no need for anything fancy).

Some other maps that could probably be released without any major .map updates:
Village2 (fix the car clipping)

Village2 already gets played in leagues, but the colors are all weird. Would also be nice to get a proper 4.0 Ambush release without buggy spawns. It seems to be the general consensus that 4.0 Ambush plays much better than the new one. Honestly most of the maps I listed just need to have their assets gathered up alongside the .bsp, and put in a standalone .pk3. I can't guarantee play for any of them, especially not on pubs, but the league maplists (esp. ctf) are kinda slim these days.
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