Swaggzilla, on 16 December 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:
Non-Wave requires a lot of thinking, to the point where you second guess yourself a lot, but team play is a big factor in capturing your opponents flag. That is not to say that wave does not require thinking or team play, it certainly does, but at a different pace. Wave CTF requires extremely fast reaction speeds, requires efficiency and aim and VERY quick thinking, which was a HUGE learning curve for me when I first started playing wave.
Wave is brainless, end of story. Each spawn can reset the game. You do not have to control anything or think beyond the 14 second (or whatever) timer. TKing actually makes the game more involved by requiring you to make decisions like whether to have an extra gun to try to facilitate an escape or try to get someone full stamina for defense/intercept. Removing the TK is an attempt to reduce the power of the respawn=reset, but the fundamentally flawed aspects of wave are not changed. I know you're agreeing that a cvar isn't a good idea, but you are also defending a wave.:P ps, no euros I've played in wave (talking div 1 here btw) were concerned with efficient killing. They simply ran for the flag and ran out. The game was reduced to jumping fast.
tking is the one part of wave that requires some thinking. it's in the best interest of the game to ensure it's always allowable.
Also, how on earth can getting tked be seen as something that should be punished? If wave is as frantic as Swaggzilla says it is, accidental tking will obviously result. SKIPPING a respawn is a worse punishment than occurs in non-wave CTF, where you simply receive the respawn. When a tk occurs, your opponent can push with more players during the next spawn period. I admit that actually introduces a modicum of strategic thinking to the gametype (as well as paying attention to something besides the timer), so i'm kinda conflicted lol:P
I understand you wanting to remove the tking aspect, even if I disagree, but I fail to see how this improves wave CTF in any way. Obviously wave players like the speed, and having to be extra careful about tking doesn't help, nor does forcing the affected team to choose pure defense for 1 wave. I also fail to understand why it's an important issue, as you do not play wave ctf, and one of the attractions of FTWGL is that it still uses non-wave CTF. I feel like this cvar would be as used as the bomb rules cvar. Yeah, look at all the people who know what I'm talking about when I mention that! lol. Or the TS option that gives the win to the team with more players standing. There's nothing wrong with more cvars, but I think you're overestimating how much this would benefit anyone.
BludShoT, on 16 December 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:
And now that you mention it, that is a similarly exploitative tactic in TS. Same as in wave, I have no problem with people using it in TS, they should, it's part of the game. But should it be part of the game? What legitimate use does /kill actually have in league TS?? Aside from trying to game the clock/score, is there any reason to have /kill in the game in matchmode?
As far as I understand it, /kill was put into quake 1 as almost like a dev command so if you got stuck in an unfinished or poorly made map you could remedy that. But we shouldn't be playing maps like that. And you can sub out and in or reconnect for that effect. I don't remember a single time in a match in the last 3 years that anyone actually needed to /kill.
So I think swagg has a point, and that we should remove /kill from match mode all together. Then you don't need to penalize it.
Swaggzilla, on 16 December 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:
In CTF wave, by killing your teammate, or killing yourself with a nade you're doing the same thing as teams that /kill in TS when they need the time. As far as I know, Europeans and Americans alike use this tactic when the game clock is low and they're only down by a few rounds and the other team is attempting to waste time.
/kill is a tactical gamble, but really, /kill is just a way to hasten the loss of the round. You give your opponent +1 in score to escape an obviously doomed round, but you try to win the next 2 rounds quickly to gain the lead or a tie. Or maybe 3 rounds, but that rarely works out; if you're down by more than 1 point, the opponent has 2 chances to succeed at stalling/drawing the clock out. /kill is as legitimate part of the game as is circle/strafe jumping (another unintended feature). Besides, you can just tk eachother (last man standing has to bleed) or jump off something; every map has a sufficiently high drop to eventually lead to death. Or run into the enemy. /kill saves just a few seconds, and is hardly as important as TKing in wave.
Suggestion:
Separate g_gametype #s for wave ctf and non-wave CTF. g_gametype 6 and 7 or something. It would also solve the weird issues you get with wave when enabling it half-way through a map, by instead forcing a restart! It might be nice to have abbreviations work for the gametypes as well. e.g., g_gametype tdm, cah, ftl, etc. or maybe that was already added, but w/e.