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Alot of times it goes unsaid. Being a former marine (during the time of war and peace) i know what it is like to wake up every morning trying to be a father to my daughter, a husband to my wife, a good son for my parents. Waking up every morning knowing that that could be the day i would have to run face first blindly into war to die just so my family might taste freedom for 1 more day. Now that i am not in the military I just hear the highlights from what happenes on T.V. It is very strange to sit there and watch a program that shows the horror of the things going on over there.Do you realize that there are son,daughters,husbands,wifes,dads and moms over there dieing to keep us free? The bad thing is they know the sacrafice and bare the consequences anyhow. I just thought i would say somthing just to say it.
If this is not your bag of cookies then ohwell.
The reason i posted this is cause i just got back from a party, and a guy said to me if they drafted him they would have to goto mexico to find him.
Isn't it unreal that a person would let people die for them just to say free, but when he is asked to help run for his life?
To me this is the bigest coward i have ever met and i let him know it too.
LOL it was my best friends party and we threw him into the swimping pool at the hotel.
HA
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MultiQuote#2 Guest_IcoHolic*D*
Posted 18 April 2004 - 07:24 AM
If there was conscription and I was drafted. You're damn right I'd go and hide. Wars that involve USA are not about democracy anymore. They're about financial benefit. I feel anger and sadness for the 670 young men that George Bush has decided don't deserve to live anymore. Just so he can rid the world of a dictator, when there is so many more still operating on this planet.
The war in Iraq has nothing to do with freedom, if it did.. the United States would be in many more countries around the world.
My Country (Canada) isn't in the war for that reason alone.
Hypothetical.
If we were in the war, and a man that I didn't vote for decided to sent me off to die for his cause, why the hell should I go? I should abandon my wife, children, family and friends for a cause I do not believe in? Hell no... that is not being a coward, that's being a person that has different priorities. Living in a democracy, I should have the right to choose whether or not I want to risk my life in war.
Thankfully conscription is illegal in Canada and will never happen. If I wanted to play soldierboy, I would have joined the military. No one has the right to tell me I have to spill the blood of another man, or force me into a situation where my blood can/will be spilled.
Nothing cowardly with keeping yourself alive for causes that are more true to your heart.
The war in Iraq has nothing to do with freedom, if it did.. the United States would be in many more countries around the world.
My Country (Canada) isn't in the war for that reason alone.
Hypothetical.
If we were in the war, and a man that I didn't vote for decided to sent me off to die for his cause, why the hell should I go? I should abandon my wife, children, family and friends for a cause I do not believe in? Hell no... that is not being a coward, that's being a person that has different priorities. Living in a democracy, I should have the right to choose whether or not I want to risk my life in war.
Thankfully conscription is illegal in Canada and will never happen. If I wanted to play soldierboy, I would have joined the military. No one has the right to tell me I have to spill the blood of another man, or force me into a situation where my blood can/will be spilled.
Nothing cowardly with keeping yourself alive for causes that are more true to your heart.
#3
Dragonne 
former FS member
Posted 18 April 2004 - 07:57 AM
I don't know about most people, but I do take issue with one point in the first post:
[quote name='"rking"]Isn't it unreal that a person would let people die for them just to say free' date=' but when he is asked to help run for his life?[/quote']
No, it's not "unreal". Why? Well, the DRAFT doesn't "ask" people to help fight for whatever reason. Also, I don't remember anyone "letting" others die for their freedom. Those who do serve have their own reasons for doing so. It's not like those who have died so far were forced to do it. They weren't drafted, as a draft compels people to join the services by law. It is not a choice that the victims are given (That's right, I call draftees 'victims'. Anyone who is forced under penalty to do something for whatever reason is a victim.) to serve their country, it's a requirement.
If there were a "voluntary" draft, where anyone of draft age were sent a notice requesting that they report for duty if they are able to, with no penalties against them for not reporting, then I'd be OK with it. I'm sure there are plenty of people who would rather do soemthing else but may feel the need to help out if specifically asked. If there aren't, then maybe the country's leaders should get a clue that something is wrong. War is never popular, but when there is war for the right reasons (DEFENDING your freedoms, not ATTACKING someone half way around the world who might, possibly, under the right circumstances, if given a chance, pose a threat to your freedoms), people will likely fill the ranks. Forcing people into service is wrong IMHO. Why would you want people who don't want to be involved doing your fighting anyway? I mean, I don't want someone who's life's dream is to be a burnout and sap off their parents all their life to be forced to put out my house when it's on fire with the Fire Department. It just doesn't make sense to me.
If I were ever drafted to fight a war started for what I believed were the wrong reasons, I'd dodge it too. The war in Afghanistan? Sure, I can see that some sort of action was needed to stop the base of terrorism that had grown there. Iraq? Well, ya, it was a pretty rough place by western standards and it had it's problems... but did the US have to invade it? I doubt it.
[quote name='"rking"]Isn't it unreal that a person would let people die for them just to say free' date=' but when he is asked to help run for his life?[/quote']
No, it's not "unreal". Why? Well, the DRAFT doesn't "ask" people to help fight for whatever reason. Also, I don't remember anyone "letting" others die for their freedom. Those who do serve have their own reasons for doing so. It's not like those who have died so far were forced to do it. They weren't drafted, as a draft compels people to join the services by law. It is not a choice that the victims are given (That's right, I call draftees 'victims'. Anyone who is forced under penalty to do something for whatever reason is a victim.) to serve their country, it's a requirement.
If there were a "voluntary" draft, where anyone of draft age were sent a notice requesting that they report for duty if they are able to, with no penalties against them for not reporting, then I'd be OK with it. I'm sure there are plenty of people who would rather do soemthing else but may feel the need to help out if specifically asked. If there aren't, then maybe the country's leaders should get a clue that something is wrong. War is never popular, but when there is war for the right reasons (DEFENDING your freedoms, not ATTACKING someone half way around the world who might, possibly, under the right circumstances, if given a chance, pose a threat to your freedoms), people will likely fill the ranks. Forcing people into service is wrong IMHO. Why would you want people who don't want to be involved doing your fighting anyway? I mean, I don't want someone who's life's dream is to be a burnout and sap off their parents all their life to be forced to put out my house when it's on fire with the Fire Department. It just doesn't make sense to me.
If I were ever drafted to fight a war started for what I believed were the wrong reasons, I'd dodge it too. The war in Afghanistan? Sure, I can see that some sort of action was needed to stop the base of terrorism that had grown there. Iraq? Well, ya, it was a pretty rough place by western standards and it had it's problems... but did the US have to invade it? I doubt it.
#4 Guest_[n*e*r*d*].SplitKick
Posted 18 April 2004 - 01:51 PM
I love it when a lack of blind patriotism is called cowardice. The only thing endangering the freedom and wellbeing of US citizens at this point, is the Bush administration.
Example: Bush supporting Sharon's plan for annexation of Palestinian territory, with little to no bonuses for the Palestinians themselves, is a huge setback for peace in the middle east, and isn't exactly going to improve the way the US are viewed there.
Same thing with the war in Iraq. Even if you disregard the so called reasons behind it, it's main effect was pissing of more people. Sure, there's a couple of Iraqi's who prefer a land torn by ethnic/religious conflict over a land ruled by a cruel dictator, but I can tell the rest of the Arab world wasn't too pleased with the US' bid for stability (=economical power for the US) in the middle east.
Over the last half century, the US have had military interventions in more countries than any other country in the world. Instead of being seen as the international peacekeeper however, they're seen as the international bully. Taking whatever they want by force rather than international cooperation and diplomatic measures. The Bush administration isn't the only one guilty, but they've certainly done their best to make sure the whole schoolyard knows that the bully has hit puberty.
I wouldn't want to fight for this. And in a land where a majority of the people seem to think like you, ditching out of military service is not an act of cowardice.
Example: Bush supporting Sharon's plan for annexation of Palestinian territory, with little to no bonuses for the Palestinians themselves, is a huge setback for peace in the middle east, and isn't exactly going to improve the way the US are viewed there.
Same thing with the war in Iraq. Even if you disregard the so called reasons behind it, it's main effect was pissing of more people. Sure, there's a couple of Iraqi's who prefer a land torn by ethnic/religious conflict over a land ruled by a cruel dictator, but I can tell the rest of the Arab world wasn't too pleased with the US' bid for stability (=economical power for the US) in the middle east.
Over the last half century, the US have had military interventions in more countries than any other country in the world. Instead of being seen as the international peacekeeper however, they're seen as the international bully. Taking whatever they want by force rather than international cooperation and diplomatic measures. The Bush administration isn't the only one guilty, but they've certainly done their best to make sure the whole schoolyard knows that the bully has hit puberty.
I wouldn't want to fight for this. And in a land where a majority of the people seem to think like you, ditching out of military service is not an act of cowardice.
#5
Goat (old)
- Joined: 07-February 04
- Posts: 422
- LocationIndiana
Posted 18 April 2004 - 03:01 PM
"For these reasons I cannot join with those who cry Peace, peace... War, in a good cause, is not the greatest evil which a nation can suffer. War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse. A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature, who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-John Stuart Mills
-John Stuart Mills
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#6
autoaim.cfg (old)
- Joined: 07-February 04
- Posts: 1,655
Posted 18 April 2004 - 03:12 PM
Quote
...have to run face first blindly into war to die just so my family might taste freedom for 1 more day. [snip] ...over there dieing to keep us free?
Wow! They really did a number on you, didn't they? Did they have to take stuff out when they poured all that blithering-tard propaganda in there? Or were you perhaps pretty empty to begin with? Thanx for the dying for freedom and stuff... lol... I'll be sure to mention it to Santa Clause when I run into him at the Easter bunnys tea party next week.
#7 Guest_[n*e*r*d*].SplitKick
Posted 18 April 2004 - 04:05 PM
Wow Goat, you made it to the top of my bullshit list in one day. Congratulations on that.
Now nobody here ever said they were against all war. Obviously it's a part of the world, and sometimes you have to wage a war to ensure the continued existance of some sort of balance. The Allied Forces' fight against Hitler is a nice example of a war that was quite necessary.
To claim (via the quote) that I am "a miserable creature" because I wouldn't blindly step into a war without taking into account whether it's warranted or just, is just utter bullshit. By the way, I agree with the first three sentences of your quote, after that it more or less becomes the reason why I find it so hard to like America as a whole. The whole patriottism thing just makes me a little sick in the stomach. But I guess it comes from feeling guilty about living in a land that isn't really yours, off wealth that you didn't exactly deserve.
Yes I am bitter, because the world isn't exactly becoming a prettier place in these times, and I am not blaming teh muslims for it either.
Now nobody here ever said they were against all war. Obviously it's a part of the world, and sometimes you have to wage a war to ensure the continued existance of some sort of balance. The Allied Forces' fight against Hitler is a nice example of a war that was quite necessary.
To claim (via the quote) that I am "a miserable creature" because I wouldn't blindly step into a war without taking into account whether it's warranted or just, is just utter bullshit. By the way, I agree with the first three sentences of your quote, after that it more or less becomes the reason why I find it so hard to like America as a whole. The whole patriottism thing just makes me a little sick in the stomach. But I guess it comes from feeling guilty about living in a land that isn't really yours, off wealth that you didn't exactly deserve.
Yes I am bitter, because the world isn't exactly becoming a prettier place in these times, and I am not blaming teh muslims for it either.
#8
Goat (old)
- Joined: 07-February 04
- Posts: 422
- LocationIndiana
Posted 18 April 2004 - 04:57 PM
I seem to have found a little soft underbelly to poke at....
#10
6th|illogical
-
verified user
Retired Master Server Administrator
Posted 18 April 2004 - 03:12 PM
You want to bitch about how you're sad "for the 670 young men that George Bush has decided don't deserve to live anymore", I'd have to say that you're a f*cking crock. Bush didn't decide they didn't deserve to live, the 670 men and women didn't decide that they didn't deserve to live anymore, some terrorist-supporting asshole with an AK decided it.
"If there was conscription and I was drafted. You're damn right I'd go and hide." Is this your life's motto? Oh, there's a problem, better go run and hide. Too many people take all this freedom for granted, thinking it will always be around, that it will "just be" and no one has to ensure it continues. If the draft comes around, I'll try to join the Marines. And just to keep the flamers out there off my ass, only reasons I haven't joined already are purely medical (Asthma, Heart Palpitations, Uber Flat Feet, and Semi-Bad Knees). And from my understanding of things, they'd turn me away for any combination of those.
"If there was conscription and I was drafted. You're damn right I'd go and hide." Is this your life's motto? Oh, there's a problem, better go run and hide. Too many people take all this freedom for granted, thinking it will always be around, that it will "just be" and no one has to ensure it continues. If the draft comes around, I'll try to join the Marines. And just to keep the flamers out there off my ass, only reasons I haven't joined already are purely medical (Asthma, Heart Palpitations, Uber Flat Feet, and Semi-Bad Knees). And from my understanding of things, they'd turn me away for any combination of those.
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