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Gameplay impeded by latency or something else? Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   atrophy Icon

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 11:43 PM

Before I begin, a bit of background so you know from where I'm coming:

I am a longtime FPS gamer who was at one point among the top OpenArena players in the world, which means I'm no stranger to the ioq3 engine or its derivatives. I wouldn't say I'm an expert, but I've been around the block a fair bit. I've played vanilla Q3, OA, Warsow, Tremulous, Nexuiz (once - it was awful), and Urban Terror. Presently I play primarily UrT and occasionally OA, but since OA development is frankly a complete joke, I much prefer UrT.

All that said, I'm definitely not as good at UrT. I thought I might be, given it's fundamentally the same game mechanics with some changes, but no such luck. Instead, I face more problems than I've ever seen with a free FPS game. Ever.

Namely, I cannot hit anybody. Ever.

For context, we pay decent money monthly for 75/50 Mbit FttP, and it works a charm for everything except UrT. I also happen to be a professional independent IT consultant, so I'm not your average tech-challenged gamer.

I have a fairly powerful machine (built on a budget) that can render UrT at 250-300FPS. Obviously that's silly, so I cap it at 125. I have /cl_maxpackets at 125 and that's about it as far as .cfg tweaks are concerned.

Apparently, the developers of UrT have decided that adjusting snapshots is somehow cheating, so /snaps is locked at 20.

I understand the difference between /ut_timenudge and /cl_timenudge, and both are at 0. I don't fuss with that in OA, either. Although I'm on the east coast of the USA and most OA servers are in Europe, I still consistently beat 95% of other players despite having a ping over 100. I'm at least an experienced enough gamer to know that
"ping" isn't everything. ;)

Yet, even running at a stable 125 FPS on a powerful GPU and decent CPU, connected to an ultra-high=speed SMB-class fibre network, I can hardly hit anything or anyone on a server where my ping is the lowest possible (48, for example). Nothing.

The other players seem to dance in between my bullets, no matter which gun I use - the super-accurate M4, the cheap "nooby" Negev, or the wild pro AK103 - they kill me almost instantly and I'm lucky to hit them at all, no matter how far away I am.

Sniping is even worse. If I aim directly at somebody, I miss 100% of the time, with either sniper rifle (no, the H+K G36 does not count), no matter what the other person's "ping" is. Despite that, I can get taken out via headshot from across the map with an AK103 anytime.

I suppose at this point it's worth asking: Exactly what percentage of UrT players use
"aimbots" or equivalent client hooks?
I've heard lots and lots of terminology thrown around regarding those, and I have to say there is a distinct difference between an actual skilled player and someone using an aimbot. Nobody else seems to care, and I'm not about to start trouble by accusing somebody via submitting a demo to whatever server admin. I wouldn't be the first to do so regarding player X or player Y, I am sure.

I have seen numerous client hooks and the like for Q3A and OA, even Warsow, and they are so embarrassingly easy to detect it's a wonder anybody even bothers. I imagine since UrT is (for some reason) closed-source that developing cheats and other sorts of injected DLLs and what have you would be rather difficult. I might be a computer programmer, but I have no interest in attempting that. I can't even play it normally, and if UrT is really the kind of game where only cheaters have the upper hand, it's definitely not the game for me!

So, what of it? Is my ping too low? Even on some European servers, with a ping hovering around 100-130, it's all I can do to manage 5 kills with 30 deaths. It's becoming infuriating.

Either there are settings or cvars I've not set or adjusted properly, or I frequent servers full of cheaters. I'm inclined to believe the former, so if anybody can help shed some light on this for me, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks! :)

#2 User is offline   AnonDafb Icon

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 06:38 AM

You can find some errors in the shot, by the ping or lag than you have or them can have.
But for the moment the FS team fixed the UrT 4.2.023 for than the hacker can't make easily a program for use aimbot.
Obvi make a mombot is not impossible, but right now we don't find no one using or no there no one report about any hacker or cheater...not than I knowing.
If you are looking the way for down your ping, can make your own server or search servers with low ping.
I know than find servers with good ping and full are hard, but if you can't kill or them kill you fast, is because you need practice more ;)
I hope than this was the answer than you was searching...if no, is because I don't understand good your problem :P

#3 User is offline   tintir Icon

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 10:16 AM

Since you're experienced in the engine UrT 4.2 runs, then you should know, that it's old and can't have the top modern stuff in it.
UrT 4.2 is properly the max of what you can do out of the engine, and even with this, the engine is too old, and therefore there're limits for FPS etc. Also since the engine is outdated UrT can't be that modern as it should be.

Cheats in 4.2 is hard to make, and they're stopped at each update. But I wont believe, that there're many cheaters in UrT. Instead I think it's players knowing how to play.
I think a FS member would be better to explain it.

But the engine is old, and therefore there can be many things, that aren't optimized and can't be.

#4 User is offline   atrophy Icon

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 06:54 PM

Ah. I wasn't very clear, I guess.

I don't think players use cheats terribly often. I just fail to see why they can hit me so easily, and I can't hit a damn thing.

I have very low ping on the two or three east-coast US servers I frequent. Sometimes, I've got the lowest ping of any player on the server. On servers with bots (who have a ping of 0 and can't aim either), I can take them out easily. Players with higher pings - even in the 200+ range - seem practically invincible. It's extremely frustrating.

If I have a higher ping (e.g. on an EU server) then I am a bit more accurate. I don't like changing my config all the time just to play properly, but you're right in that it's an old engine and therefore subject to some bumps and problems and whatnot.

I just thought that a low ping was desirable, that's all. I've even had people suggest I set /cl_timenudge to a high positive value, which I suspect would probably cause more headaches than it would solve.

It doesn't help that I'm not the most skilled American player either, so comparing myself to other US players on US servers isn't particularly easy.

Sniping is the worst. I know what it'd mean if players seemed to dodge my bullets without moving (e.g. warping) or if I zoom in and aim at their head but the bullet hits somewhere to the left or right. I have a fairly steady hand, I guess, and my mouse settings are pretty much the best I'll get, but I just don't understand how even when I make myself a fast-moving target by strafing all over the place, I'm still so easy to hit!

I'm at a loss as to how I ought to compensate at this point. Running my own server is an idea I've had for a while, but I'd have to calculate the extra cost my host would add for the amount of bandwidth I'd suddenly be using. Not high on my list of things to set up right now, actually.

#5 User is offline   AnonDafb Icon

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 07:46 PM

View Postatrophy, on 27 February 2015 - 06:54 PM, said:

Ah. I wasn't very clear, I guess.

I don't think players use cheats terribly often. I just fail to see why they can hit me so easily, and I can't hit a damn thing.

I have very low ping on the two or three east-coast US servers I frequent. Sometimes, I've got the lowest ping of any player on the server. On servers with bots (who have a ping of 0 and can't aim either), I can take them out easily. Players with higher pings - even in the 200+ range - seem practically invincible. It's extremely frustrating.

If I have a higher ping (e.g. on an EU server) then I am a bit more accurate. I don't like changing my config all the time just to play properly, but you're right in that it's an old engine and therefore subject to some bumps and problems and whatnot.

The answer is easy! You need practice more.
This is a faster game, where the players can shoot and move fast.
You need stay two pass more front than your enemies if really wanna kill like a god.
For the general, the old player know the best site for camp or know how to appear shooting for can kill the enemies.
The ping is not a factor for be noob...there players than are pros with 300 of lag.

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#6 User is offline   tintir Icon

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 08:26 PM

If you got high ping or someone else, it'll be hard for both of you to hit each other sometimes. Though I often find high ping easier, than dealing with high pingers, because for them they hit you, while for you they don't.
Training will help, also with sniper :)

#7 User is offline   DeMS Icon

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Posted 29 February 2016 - 05:05 PM

[quote name='atrophy' timestamp='1424990639' post='361412']
Before I begin, a bit of background so you know from where I'm coming:

I am a longtime FPS gamer who was at one point among the top OpenArena players in the world, which means I'm no stranger to the ioq3 engine or its derivatives. I wouldn't say I'm an expert, but I've been around the block a fair bit. I've played vanilla Q3, OA, Warsow, Tremulous, Nexuiz (once - it was awful), and Urban Terror. Presently I play primarily UrT and occasionally OA, but since OA development is frankly a complete joke, I much prefer UrT. [/quote]

Welcome!

[quote name='atrophy' timestamp='1424990639' post='361412']
All that said, I'm definitely not as good at UrT. I thought I might be, given it's fundamentally the same game mechanics with some changes, but no such luck. Instead, I face more problems than I've ever seen with a free FPS game. Ever.

Namely, I cannot hit anybody. Ever.

For context, we pay decent money monthly for 75/50 Mbit FttP, and it works a charm for everything except UrT. I also happen to be a professional independent IT consultant, so I'm not your average tech-challenged gamer.

I have a fairly powerful machine (built on a budget) that can render UrT at 250-300FPS. Obviously that's silly, so I cap it at 125. I have /cl_maxpackets at 125 and that's about it as far as .cfg tweaks are concerned.

Apparently, the developers of UrT have decided that adjusting snapshots is somehow cheating, so /snaps is locked at 20.

I understand the difference between /ut_timenudge and /cl_timenudge, and both are at 0. I don't fuss with that in OA, either. Although I'm on the east coast of the USA and most OA servers are in Europe, I still consistently beat 95% of other players despite having a ping over 100. I'm at least an experienced enough gamer to know that
"ping" isn't everything. ;)

Yet, even running at a stable 125 FPS on a powerful GPU and decent CPU, connected to an ultra-high=speed SMB-class fibre network, I can hardly hit anything or anyone on a server where my ping is the lowest possible (48, for example). Nothing.

The other players seem to dance in between my bullets, no matter which gun I use - the super-accurate M4, the cheap "nooby" Negev, or the wild pro AK103 - they kill me almost instantly and I'm lucky to hit them at all, no matter how far away I am.

Sniping is even worse. If I aim directly at somebody, I miss 100% of the time, with either sniper rifle (no, the H+K G36 does not count), no matter what the other person's "ping" is. Despite that, I can get taken out via headshot from across the map with an AK103 anytime.
[/quote]

As someone who has been playing UrT for a few years and has been jumping to other games quite often, yes, UrT has quite bad hit registration, the netcode seems to be a downgrade even from older versions of UrT, and the amount of missed shots due to inconsistencies of the game is one of the motivators for people to swear, and coupled with the number of bugs/performance issues -plenty of them being unsolvable, and you won't find much help on those forums either-, it's no wonder most of the community ended up leaving.

Having said that there's some sort of contradiction in how the game is designed and how the engine works, let's see some examples:
  • Game design encourages repeated taps with automatic rifles -first shot should have 100% accuracy, which is useful if you can aim to the head-, however network issues mean it's usually better to shoot in bursts or even in spaced sprays -as in 5-10 bullets, reset, shoot again-, else you won't hit much.

  • Network code attempts to balance pings so high pingers are not in a disadvantadge and it somewhat succeeds at that -the game is arguably playable at even 200 ping, and you can still kill or harm players with 10 ping, and viceversa-, but there's a certain ping range that you won't hit with high ping, there's a certain ping range you won't hit with very low ping, which means you want to have a ping in the middle/low area to be able to hit most people -around 30-50 in my experience. To add to that, you will notice that when you're playing with low ping, you're being "more easily hit" than at higher ping, and you will probably be more prone to be shot down in suspicious ways, whereas with high ping you'll feel like enemies are sponges that won't die -sometimes after a second you'll see them on the killfeed- or they kind of instagib you -low ping players mostly.

  • High speed movement is the essence of the game, yet the netcode makes hitting people flying at speed a RNG lottery most of the time. It isn't helped by the fact that you need to either lead or follow the enemy to hit them depending on their pings, in extreme situations -I usually shoot at where the player is on my screen, which ends up in quite a few weird moments.


On your other issues, people I know usually joked around saying that SR8 seems to have preference over anything else on this game, as its hits usually register faster and better than most other weapons in the game, regardless of the ping.

Side note, being taken via headshot from one side of the map being on the other extreme is "normal" in this game, and many good players are able to do so -with some less gifted ones managing to do it quite more times than they deserve too :P

[quote name='atrophy' timestamp='1424990639' post='361412']
I suppose at this point it's worth asking: Exactly what percentage of UrT players use
"aimbots" or equivalent client hooks?
I've heard lots and lots of terminology thrown around regarding those, and I have to say there is a distinct difference between an actual skilled player and someone using an aimbot. Nobody else seems to care, and I'm not about to start trouble by accusing somebody via submitting a demo to whatever server admin. I wouldn't be the first to do so regarding player X or player Y, I am sure.

I have seen numerous client hooks and the like for Q3A and OA, even Warsow, and they are so embarrassingly easy to detect it's a wonder anybody even bothers. I imagine since UrT is (for some reason) closed-source that developing cheats and other sorts of injected DLLs and what have you would be rather difficult. I might be a computer programmer, but I have no interest in attempting that. I can't even play it normally, and if UrT is really the kind of game where only cheaters have the upper hand, it's definitely not the game for me!
[/quote]

I very much doubt there's an epidemic of hackers on UrT at the moment. If anything, rage hackers should be extremely rare, however I'm quite certain there's a few closet cheaters lurking around, trying to not to get noticed, but it's a minority, much less people in % than in other, more popular, games, such as CSGO.

[quote name='atrophy' timestamp='1424990639' post='361412']
So, what of it? Is my ping too low? Even on some European servers, with a ping hovering around 100-130, it's all I can do to manage 5 kills with 30 deaths. It's becoming infuriating.

Either there are settings or cvars I've not set or adjusted properly, or I frequent servers full of cheaters. I'm inclined to believe the former, so if anybody can help shed some light on this for me, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks! :)
[/quote]

You should try the to use the tips and the config that Biddle provided on [url="http://www.urbanterror.info/forums/topic/33391-42-fps-drop/"]this thread[/url], give it a spin and see how it works for you.

[quote name='tintir' timestamp='1425028590' post='361424']
Since you're experienced in the engine UrT 4.2 runs, then you should know, that it's old and can't have the top modern stuff in it.
UrT 4.2 is properly the max of what you can do out of the engine, and even with this, the engine is too old, and therefore there're limits for FPS etc. Also since the engine is outdated UrT can't be that modern as it should be.[/quote]

That's wrong on so many levels. Just look at Quake Live, the netcode there works -almost- wonderfully.

[quote name='tintir' timestamp='1425028590' post='361424']
Cheats in 4.2 is hard to make, and they're stopped at each update. But I wont believe, that there're many cheaters in UrT. Instead I think it's players knowing how to play.
I think a FS member would be better to explain it.

But the engine is old, and therefore there can be many things, that aren't optimized and can't be.
[/quote]

That's why we had a better performing client, like the bumpy one, only to be discarded because GeForce MX440 users couldn't run the -completely optional- shaders, right?

Had to split the message in two because the forum doesn't like quotes.

They nerfed me :'(

[quote name='atrophy' timestamp='1425059648' post='361434']
Ah. I wasn't very clear, I guess.

I don't think players use cheats terribly often. I just fail to see why they can hit me so easily, and I can't hit a damn thing.

I have very low ping on the two or three east-coast US servers I frequent. Sometimes, I've got the lowest ping of any player on the server. On servers with bots (who have a ping of 0 and can't aim either), I can take them out easily. Players with higher pings - even in the 200+ range - seem practically invincible. It's extremely frustrating.
[/quote]

Keep in mind that it works both ways, people with high pings feel like a sponge to you, but on their end, they're being instafragged when you kill them. It's frustratring for both parties, most of the time.

[quote name='atrophy' timestamp='1425059648' post='361434']
If I have a higher ping (e.g. on an EU server) then I am a bit more accurate. [/quote]

That's odd, usually having a higher ping means your bullets get "lost" more often, albeit, you can spam and hit "easier" than if you full-on spam with low ping, due to lag correction.

[quote name='atrophy' timestamp='1425059648' post='361434']
I just thought that a low ping was desirable, that's all. I've even had people suggest I set /cl_timenudge to a high positive value, which I suspect would probably cause more headaches than it would solve.

It doesn't help that I'm not the most skilled American player either, so comparing myself to other US players on US servers isn't particularly easy.

Sniping is the worst. I know what it'd mean if players seemed to dodge my bullets without moving (e.g. warping) or if I zoom in and aim at their head but the bullet hits somewhere to the left or right. I have a fairly steady hand, I guess, and my mouse settings are pretty much the best I'll get, but I just don't understand how even when I make myself a fast-moving target by strafing all over the place, I'm still so easy to hit!

I'm at a loss as to how I ought to compensate at this point. Running my own server is an idea I've had for a while, but I'd have to calculate the extra cost my host would add for the amount of bandwidth I'd suddenly be using. Not high on my list of things to set up right now, actually.
[/quote]

Low ping is desireable, you'll just feel being more "vulnerable" to enemy bullets, and will need to "react faster" to incoming opponents -or that's the feeling I had when I went from mid-high ping to quite low ping.

Movement is something you need to practice in this game, most players won't be easily discouraged if you only strafe -since most newbies will spray and pray, you'll still be in their cone of fire, so you'll get damage if you make short strafes, but you will be easier to track making long strafes, walljumping is usually a better idea.

Also, keep in mind that there's people playing this game for a bunch of years, who won't be impressed by your attempts to play UrT as if it was OA or another tactical shooter: it does have its own personality, it's own meta, and requires a slightly different skillset as other shooters do.

[quote name='AnonDafb' timestamp='1425062774' post='361436']
The answer is easy! You need practice more.
This is a faster game, where the players can shoot and move fast.
You need stay two pass more front than your enemies if really wanna kill like a god.
For the general, the old player know the best site for camp or know how to appear shooting for can kill the enemies.
The ping is not a factor for be noob...there players than are pros with 300 of lag.
[/quote]

I think OA is quite a fast game, at higher skill levels. Maybe even faster than the UrT game you can see on public servers.

[quote name='tintir' timestamp='1425065177' post='361440']
If you got high ping or someone else, it'll be hard for both of you to hit each other sometimes. Though I often find high ping easier, than dealing with high pingers, because for them they hit you, while for you they don't.
Training will help, also with sniper :)
[/quote]

There's no "better" or "easier" ping to play at, all of them have their problems and advantages.

The only caveat is that if you're a highly skilled individual, you should strive to play with and against the lowest ping possible, as it will benefit your game the most.

#8 User is offline   bluewormx Icon

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 06:18 AM

atrophy.
Hi, UrT has a very very steep learning curve.

There are no magic cvar's (stock are fine)
There are no magic weapons.

There are simply lots of highlly skilled players that have been playing for over a decade.

All you can do is arm yourself with patience and perseverance and hope for the best.

#9 User is offline   thelionroars Icon

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 07:24 AM

Probably a fairly low amount of aimbotters right now, I've haven't seen anything I'd deem suspicious for a long time. Be aware that Urban Terror has spread which is caused by movement and/or holding down the trigger. You can get a rough idea of spread with some of the crosshair types available, though most people just move to the single dot after a while.

in addition to 125fps, I would recommend:


cl_maxpackets 125
rate 32000
com_hunkmegs 1024



You may want to check out the com_singlecore stuff for windows, I'm on Linux which doesn't use it so I'm not really sure what to put.

Also Welcome!

#10 User is offline   killspree Icon

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Posted 02 March 2016 - 08:58 AM

Practise a lot watch the tutorial and master each skill and weapon use speed but also use strafe to be more silent practice aiming with your mouse.

Try to find someone to play 1v1 or someone who can teach you new skills.

Stick with it and the sky is the limit.

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