[Dark-knight]

Frankie V, on 24 September 2015 - 12:19 AM, said:

Right poor word use on my part.

Turnpike was contributed to the Urban Terror project just as everything in it was added as part of the whole. FS responsibility is to respect the works of others who have contributed over the years and since the original mapmaker was nice enough to more or less put the design and layout into the creative commons then that obligation, requirement, has been fulfilled. Same rules apply to FS as to the no modification to the main asset package with out permission and we only do so if something has become broken.

Hope I'm not making things even more confusing but a 1-1 conversion is not as easy as it sounds if part of the objective is to maintain continuity of the original art work but just like 2Fort4 or Facing Worlds I would assume that a Turnpike would one day show up in HD.

I think this needs to be said, to possibly avoid future confusion. I will try to explain something.
A person creates a map.
The Developers like that map.
The Developers ask the content creator if they can make it an official default game map.
If the creator says YES, then that means that they (the content creator), have now given their map (intellectual work), to the Developers to officially put into the game, which is owned by Frozen Sand, LLC. Meaning that Frozen Sand now owns the map and its assets (intellectual work).

Weather or not this was intended by the Dev team, this is what has happened.
Urban Terrorâ„¢ and its assets are owned by Frozen Sand, LLC. When the creator of a 3rd party map gives the Developers permission to include it as an official map with the games release; it becomes the Property of Frozen Sand.
Correct me if I'm wrong...

But I also understand where you are coming from with the desire to respect the map creators.

This post has been edited by Dark-knight: 24 September 2015 - 04:20 AM

[FS Frankie V]

Ah ok I can see "weather or not was intended" would come into play as the fail on our side is the lack of some form of mandate of just who Frozen Sand is in the world of games development in general as to ownership.

Blade Killer of course being here from the start could give a better story but where I came in with the work being done on 4.2 and on it's clear to me, in my opinion, that Frozen Sand functions more as a co-op working to keep the old girl alive than a games development company that functions in a manner as to their best interests. After all I was shanghaied from the community and not hired which would be typical of any "job" that is more interested in ownership. With my time here I never once looked at my work as working on a game as it is about doing the necessary maintenance to make sure UrT is around for another year.

Urban Terror "only" survives today because of community effort of smart people showing up doing small things as members of this community that tend to go unnoticed and the only advantage of wearing a blue shirt is you are given the opportunity of seeing just how big the community is that is much bigger than a few guys and gals hopping they don't screw something up. :D

Also todays issues as to copyrighted material is copyright is attached upon creation and the only way we could "directly" accept content IP as being ownership asset is by signing a Contributors Agreement, which each Dev has , or that such assets is released to Creative Commons Zero or MIT licensing.

It really is a complex situation with Urban Terror being over 15 years old as the means of being a bit more free with a community developed game like Urban Terror has only been around for a few years and all of the things that we would have loved to have done with idtech3/urt can be done with HD as changing to UE4 removes 15 years worth of unclaimed baggage.

Our ideal would be to open source the development of the game, and not so much the game code source, by using the three means mentioned above which is the long way of saying with permission "any" one can now do a reboot of Turnpike for HD if they wish and we could put more focus into what it would take as far as distribution goes that would make it easier for a mapmaker to get their map into the "official" distribution.

[FS BladeKiller]

Due to copyright problems Turnpike can not be remade exactly as it is. All of the textures and models have to change. This is why Nevada was made with the same layout but different textures and a different locale in the out of playable area. I would still like to see this version of the map finished.

The worst part about even trying to maintain these old maps is if even a tiny shadow changes people freak out. I never want to touch one of these old maps again due to this. It's too frustrating.

[ds`killspree]

Thinking like that is holding you guy's way back.

How you know people think like that urt hd is not even out yet i rather see a minimal change in the shadow than a desert based tp.

I'm not mapping one map for hd until it actually comes out because it already been ages ago when it should come out, but if I was remaking a map for hd I would go with close as it gets Who cares hat everybody think? Do it for yourself.

Greetings,

(forgot more about radiant than most know)


Right now this still valid making tp in hd will be amazing for sure the community still backing up fs.

I'm all for wu making tp himself again if he want's for hd.

This post has been edited by killspree: 30 September 2015 - 10:51 AM

[FS Frankie V]

killspree, on 30 September 2015 - 10:13 AM, said:

I'm not mapping one map for hd until it actually comes out because it already been ages ago when it should come out, but if I was remaking a map for hd I would go with close as it gets Who cares hat everybody think? Do it for yourself.

Making a map in UE4 is making a map and it's usage would not be limited to just Urban Terror so a map made for UrT HD would also work with Unreal Tournament 4 which is much further along.

Looking at it from an educational perspective learning the inside and outs of Unreal 4 as a means to develop marketable skills it's more about having a purpose as to why make an effort in the first place.

[ds`killspree]

Actually frankie im making a game that is going to come out on steam xbox and ps4.

Not Alone but being actually part of the dev team.

But i mean by that is i like to be able to test the map i make otherwise im just spitballing.

This post has been edited by killspree: 01 October 2015 - 08:42 AM

[MsT*|tintir]

The shootergame template is close. If you know C++ you could tweak the jumping and movement etc., or you can wait for FS to release the mapping package.

For now the jumping part of HD maps are hard (atleast for custom mappers), but a conversion still need alot of work. I hardly believe you know what you need to do, while I'm rebuilding my hole map, which takes alot of time. I don't need the movements just yet.

On topic. Turnpike would be great to see in HD as a conversion, but I like the Nevada idea. Wu could return and convert turnpike if he wanted to, but as turnpike is a very popular map, and Nevada is FS's best bet, then they should go with it.
Unless Wu gives everything needed for the conversion :)

[FS BladeKiller]

Nevada is Turnpike with different textures and map objects. I don't see a problem if someone makes the same or very similar layout with a completely different theme creating a new place with a new name (giving credit where due). Why not use a tried and true layout with different "skins"? Would this be boring or would it keep a great layout fresh? How many unique layouts would be required before these sorts of duplicates would be acceptable?

The relative scale is the same in HD as in Q3UT so you can construct the basics of a map in GTK Radiant. You would need to export it as an .obj and adjust the unit scale in a 3d modeling program like Blender to 1 unit = 1 cm and then increase the size of your model by 254%. Now you can export it as an .fbx and import it to UE4 for texturing. I would export it in pieces according to materials so you can just apply a material to the mesh in UE4. Frankie_V has made several videos showing different ways of converting Q3UT maps.

[ds`killspree]

HI Tinter your right I played around with animation and bleuprints but the jumping look weird unless you tweak the source code that is not my thing at all I like animations but more i like just mapping making nice stuff but mostly I learn what I know to others in the clan or who wants to learn.

It I just my preference to wait a bit with mapping until fs gives us something to work with, i'm sure it's on its way until then learning unreal 4 is nice to do and if your thinking about mapping in unreal 4 your bet bet is using a modeling program like blender or 3dsmax.
Working with bsp brushes is not very nice in the editor I get a lot of crashes and importing static meshes works a lot better so i'm glad I learned that if you know that than importing your ut4 map into unreal engine 4 is pretty straight forward but still time consuming mostly getting nice uv's/textures.
About "Nevada" you guy's started before wu said hi again here on the forum so i'm sure he feel honored I would at least.

Getting the old maps into the new engine is cool but making new maps will be cooler perhaps because we get more bang for the buck we should at least get more than 10x more triangles in frame without to much fps drops so about 400.000 and you should still be able to fly around the level at full speed.
Even if this amount of detail in a level is not needed especially if you want a level that has a nice game pace for ctf or ts It is still amazing and next gen.
I actually build a part of my home town including my house using google maps and build an area about 2 square kilometers this is probably to big for ts but ctf or tdm will benefit with a bigger map.
The blue guy that comes standard in unreal 4 walk in about 3 min from one side of the map to the other but the ut4 guy moves with about 70 km/h if your jumping very fast so this is also why i'm waiting so I know what will be good and what not.

(House first second and third floor approximate height in game 7,5 meters)






This shows the triangle count in my scene.



But it only shows the count for static meshes i build a road system and some houses but most are bsp brushes i used for prototyping over 1000 box brushes.

I don't know how many or if any is culled out automatically.
This is already more than is recommended in the current urt.
compile time = 10 min.

This post has been edited by killspree: 01 October 2015 - 11:16 PM

[FS BladeKiller]

I really hope people make maps that don't look like building blocks like in Q3UT. One thing to avoid are knife edges on corners. These can easily be beveled which improves the appearance dramatically. You don't have to worry about triangle count the way you do in Q3UT. I would use terrain for most ground surfaces because of the auto LOD's.