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A point about bleeding Rate Topic: -----

Less RNG maybe?

#1 User is offline   Iye Icon

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Posted 06 November 2016 - 03:35 AM

So yeah. i may just have a rather bad day night in UrT. Whatever.

But what surely didn't add to my enjoyment is the amount of randomness included with bleeding.

I wanted to post about this for a long time, but somehow never did. I noticed bleeding got a LOT more punishing in 4.2 originally, but somehow got the (probably false) feeling it got even worse in 4.3. It probably didn't though. Yet there still is a problem with bleeding IMO.


Except from very few exceptions (helmets) its just. random. like fully.
Independent of guns and damage.

You can hit someone with a LR for 20 damage and make him bleed for another 20.
You can actually bleed to death from 25 hp over 15 seconds while continuously bandaging. From LR hits.
You can get 4 hits off with a gun and not cause any bleed whatsoever.
You can get hit by a spas for 40 damage, have 3 bleeding regions and fix that within a few seconds.
You can hit some1 in the foot for basically 0 damage and have him slowed down like he just lost half his HP to a spas spread to all leg regions.

I guess you get the point.

For how to address this, i see a couple of options. Doubling bandage seeped would be a good start. Personally i find capping the required bandage time interesting. It makes it way more predictable. A setup where you can at max bleed 10-15 HP when bandaging would be another option.

well there you go. 0330 posts, slightly induced by rage. But at the end of it i think I'm cooled down enough to go to bed now. :P
Sorry for my bad spelling - I am still asleep. :)

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#2 User is offline   Biddle Icon

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Posted 06 November 2016 - 02:45 PM

View PostIye, on 06 November 2016 - 03:35 AM, said:

I noticed bleeding got a LOT more punishing in 4.2 originally, but somehow got the (probably false) feeling it got even worse in 4.3. It probably didn't though.

That's correct, the bleeding or bandaging systems have not been touched with the 4.3 release. Nevertheless, you are not the only one having this feeling, and perhaps, the QVM magic upon different compilations did induce slight changes. The current behaviour happening to annoy quite a bunch of players, we might want to look into the bleeding and bandaging systems.

In Urban Terror four different situations appear when being hit by a bullet:

  • Damage taken
  • Damage taken + limping
  • Damage taken + bleeding
  • Damage taken + limping + bleeding

Limping being specific to the legs is the situation where your legs are "broken" and that you can't "sprint" anymore. Happens when hit in lower legs, feet, or when falling from high places, just not high enough to kill you.

A player can have a total of 4 bleeding points that are calculated every 100 ms which seem to work the following:

  • 1hp every 900ms with 1 hit point
  • 1hp every 400ms with 2 hit points
  • 1hp every 300ms with 3 hit points
  • 1hp every 200ms with 4 hit points

In the code, there is a system that tells per weapon if it should make a specific body part bleed or not.
Currently every weapon inflict bleeding points on each and every hit locations of a body apart from the Helmet and Kevlar hits.


So, yes, bleeding is totally independent from the type of gun you are using and the amount of damage you dealt. The cumulation of several hits makes bleeding be more lethal or not.

To have your points answered clearly:

View PostIye, on 06 November 2016 - 03:35 AM, said:

You can hit someone with a LR for 20 damage and make him bleed for another 20.

A single hit can make someone bleed out for even a 100 hp if he doesn't bandage. It would just take about 9 full seconds for that to happen.

View PostIye, on 06 November 2016 - 03:35 AM, said:

You can get 4 hits off with a gun and not cause any bleed whatsoever.

If the hits were in the vest or the helmet, then yes, that is intentional. Though, it should not happen for other hit locations.

View PostIye, on 06 November 2016 - 03:35 AM, said:

You can hit some1 in the foot for basically 0 damage and have him slowed down like he just lost half his HP to a spas spread to all leg regions.

As explained, the situation where a player is "slowed down" is called limping. The slow factor should be identical and the same regardless of the amount of hits a player has stood. You either are limping or not.

View PostIye, on 06 November 2016 - 03:35 AM, said:

You can get hit by a spas for 40 damage, have 3 bleeding regions and fix that within a few seconds.

I suppose, the number of bleeding points is calculated per hit, and for the spas, despite the fact it fires several pellets on possibly different hit locations, they are considered as one by the bleeding system. What I understand is that you can apply one single bleeding point per "shot". The different hit regions will be marked as hit/bleeding but then the bleeding velocity will consider only one bleed point. Therefore, I suppose, the same goes for the bandaging speed.

View PostIye, on 06 November 2016 - 03:35 AM, said:

You can actually bleed to death from 25 hp over 15 seconds while continuously bandaging. From LR hits.

Well if you make the maths, it looks like a possible situation, especially with 3 or 4 bleeding points. Though, I haven't looked into the way bandaging works yet. It seems you have to bandage each bleeding point one after another, which explains why bandaging can be really long on some occasions.

View PostIye, on 06 November 2016 - 03:35 AM, said:

For how to address this, i see a couple of options. Doubling bandage seeped would be a good start. Personally i find capping the required bandage time interesting. It makes it way more predictable. A setup where you can at max bleed 10-15 HP when bandaging would be another option.

Given the current annoyance the community is facing with bandaging timers, it will certainly be addressed in a future update :)

#3 User is offline   Magister Icon

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Posted 07 November 2016 - 07:03 PM

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed this. For whatever reason, my perception is that bleed time seems longer in 4.3 compared to 4.2 (though I do believe Biddle that it didn't get changed in the code).

But whether it changed or not, I still have a suggestion: Make it so that if you stop moving and if you are not wearing a kevlar, then when you press the heal button your bleeding time is reduced slightly. In some situation this wouldn't be worth it but in other situations it could be a good tactic. What do you think? If it's a not a good idea feel free to say so! :)

#4 User is offline   Biddle Icon

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Posted 07 November 2016 - 08:32 PM

That's an interesting solution which makes absolute sense :)

#5 User is offline   Iye Icon

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Posted 07 November 2016 - 08:45 PM

View PostMagister, on 07 November 2016 - 07:03 PM, said:

Make it so that if you stop moving and if you are not wearing a kevlar, then when you press the heal button your bleeding time is reduced slightly. In some situation this wouldn't be worth it but in other situations it could be a good tactic. What do you think? If it's a not a good idea feel free to say so! :)


While this is nice, i dont see this really addressing the RNG included right now. It would somehow normalize it in a way, and i would like to see such a mechanic added to the game, as it adds tactical depth.

But I personally think that bleed should be "predictable" in some sense, so possibly combine this with either a cap to bleed (HP, or bandage time) or a full re-normalize so it may not take forever (this may be a lot of work to tweak right)

This post has been edited by Iye: 07 November 2016 - 08:58 PM

Sorry for my bad spelling - I am still asleep. :)

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#6 User is offline   Magister Icon

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 08:34 AM

Hey Iye, I didn't mean at all to take away from the issue you raised of seeming unpredictable bleeding. I'd love to see a solution also :)

#7 User is offline   Iye Icon

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 07:48 PM

View PostMagister, on 08 November 2016 - 08:34 AM, said:

Hey Iye, I didn't mean at all to take away from the issue you raised of seeming unpredictable bleeding. I'd love to see a solution also :)


I know. i also just wanted to point this out :P
Sorry for my bad spelling - I am still asleep. :)

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#8 User is offline   rastablaster Icon

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Posted 10 November 2016 - 11:55 PM

f1 for bleeding being a nuisance - seems erratic.

#9 User is offline   bubbleboy Icon

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 11:48 PM

View PostBiddle, on 06 November 2016 - 02:45 PM, said:

A player can have a total of 4 bleeding points
In the code, there is a system that tells per weapon if it should make a specific body part bleed or not.
Currently every weapon inflict bleeding points on each and every hit locations of a body apart from the Helmet and Kevlar hits.


I don't think any hit locations changed since 4.2 but I guess since groin and butt used to be kevlar you will bleed more now than in 4.1 if you get hit in the groin or butt while wearing a vest.

This post has been edited by bubbleboy: 29 November 2016 - 04:40 PM

MAKU

#10 User is offline   Biddle Icon

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 05:36 PM

Very good point Maku.

I ended up not mentioning it, but yes, the multiplicity in the possible hit locations that was re-introdued with 4.2 seems to be the most logical answer as to why bleeding can be a lot more lethal and bandaging a lot longer (in comparison with 4.1).

This post has been edited by Biddle: 13 May 2022 - 01:42 AM


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