[Makeurtgreatagain]

sigh this is what happens when I am not following the git tracker and stopping yall from doing stupid shit

I am sorry WHAT
you nerf the netcode because of people with crappy connections and insufficient sense to play on servers in there own region ...

if there connection is THAT bad then they play on servers with it set to 20 why punish the people that can accually run the game because the people with ancient dual cores questionable and ADSL can't

hell the people that OPENED this issue admitted to having crappy net and meh wifi which means One thing IT ISN'T THE engines FAULT the increase in ping is caused by your connection/clients inability to handle the increased throughput which means its gotta be really REALLY REALLY terrible because urt doesn't use shit for bandwidth anyway literally the difference between 20 and 125 is less then 10KB/s so your are nerfing it because your net can't handle a extra 10KB/s WHAT

so now we are back to getting hit around corners by people with 200 pings intends of ya know the 200 pingers getting there asses handed to them NICE .. time to go back to running torrents while I play so I can have a decent amount of hits.

further more most of the bitching is coming from people that hang out on 24 and 32 slot servers that are NOT supported and have been told repeatedly that it doesn't work and hell it didn't even work great with 20 snaps with that much clusterfking going on

I knew people where going to cry about it I didn't think you would be stupid enough to revert it ... what in the actual *@!#

so what are you gonna do about resurgence then nerf the graphics to minecraft level so the people that can't run the game properly get 30fps instead of 15 ?

you notice that the only people pro nerf and the ones with questionable computers and questionable connections I am literally astounded you thought this was a acceptable thing todo after we have fought so hard to get it changed so here we are again the minority of players that only play the game because its the only thing that runs on there stone-age pc's and tin can internet get all the preference and the people that accually have jobs and have machines and connections made within the last 10 years get shit ....

you can NOT Nerf the experience for everybody because a handful of people from Europe can't seem to understand the fact that they need to run there own servers and stick to there own region and ya know NOT use B band wifi =/

This post has been edited by Makeurtgreatagain: 14 February 2017 - 09:21 AM

[Makeurtgreatagain]

you want a fix its simple I brought this up in a ticket a few years ago
make it adaptive run 82 snaps at 10-12 players 62 at 16-18 players and above that drop it to 42 (do not go below 42) above 80 much of the benefit scales way down anyway

locking it to the lowest number is not the solution its never been the solution the solution is for people to join us in 2017 and stop expecting development to be put on hold because they can't/won't upgrade/get a job/move out of the slums whatever

UrT takes so very very little resources to run this is inexcusable hell it was inexcusable 5 years ago

also you need to find some new QA staff because the ones you have aren't doing there jobs your job as Quality assurance is to test the product to make sure it works for EVERYBODY not NOT favor one single use-case or downgrade a product because your testing methodology is flawed and going by what was said in the issue tracker you need to seriously re-evaluate your testing methods

if you do half the technical nerfing with resurgence that you do with 4.x nobody is ever gonna want to play it because its gonna end up looking like minecraft and have worse netcode then battlefield 4 did on release

This post has been edited by Makeurtgreatagain: 14 February 2017 - 09:22 AM

[Mod Iye]

At first i wasnt even sure if i wanted to do this. But hey. Here is half an hour of my time.

Makeurtgreatagain, on 14 February 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

you nerf the netcode because of people with crappy connections and insufficient sense to play on servers in there own region ...

Look. You "nerf" things because they were "OP" to an unreasonable level before. Changing the netcode is in no way a nerf.

Makeurtgreatagain, on 14 February 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

if there connection is THAT bad then they play on servers with it set to 20 why punish the people that can accually run the game because the people with ancient dual cores questionable and ADSL can't

Except for UrT basically is a single core application. and ADSL may very well be enough to play UrT. Which you will acknowledge about 3 sentences down the road...

Makeurtgreatagain, on 14 February 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

hell the people that OPENED this issue admitted to having crappy net and meh wifi which means One thing IT ISN'T THE engines FAULT the increase in ping is caused by your connection/clients inability to handle the increased throughput which means its gotta be really REALLY REALLY terrible because urt doesn't use shit for bandwidth anyway literally the difference between 20 and 125 is less then 10KB/s so your are nerfing it because your net can't handle a extra 10KB/s WHAT

So what? Also im really missing the "two" for the list you attempted to give here.

Makeurtgreatagain, on 14 February 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

so now we are back to getting hit around corners by people with 200 pings intends of ya know the 200 pingers getting there asses handed to them NICE ..

You know, this is entirely related to latency and the lag compensation. more snaps wont help you with this.

Makeurtgreatagain, on 14 February 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

time to go back to running torrents while I play so I can have a decent amount of hits.

HF. however, i highly doubt that you a) do that and b) ever did that (notice i actually have two points in the list i started)

Makeurtgreatagain, on 14 February 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

further more most of the bitching is coming from people that hang out on 24 and 32 slot servers that are NOT supported and have been told repeatedly that it doesn't work and hell it didn't even work great with 20 snaps with that much clusterfking going on

It happened to me on the official release server. More on this down the line.

Makeurtgreatagain, on 14 February 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

I knew people where going to cry about it I didn't think you would be stupid enough to revert it ... what in the actual *@!#

Virtually every server had already reverted it back. Its just going back to being "hard coded" now.

Makeurtgreatagain, on 14 February 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

so what are you gonna do about resurgence then nerf the graphics to minecraft level so the people that can't run the game properly get 30fps instead of 15 ?

I would assume that UE4 has reasonable scaling options in this regard. On the other hand there is no reason to just assume just things anyways.

Makeurtgreatagain, on 14 February 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

you notice that the only people pro nerf and the ones with questionable computers and questionable connections

Well no. while i would have personally voted for keeping it open but setting the defaults to 4.2 values, i agree with this change. On a sidenote: proper punctuation to separate sentences rocks.

Makeurtgreatagain, on 14 February 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

I am literally astounded you thought this was a acceptable thing todo after we have fought so hard to get it changed

Have we? Sure there has been the call to do this, and FS did it, because everyone assumed it would help. But it turned out to have side-effects that

• did not come up in testing
  
• affect a "random" group of players on "random" servers. (note the random is ONLY in quotation marks because PCs are obviously deterministic.)
  
• Hurst both the players having the issues as well as the others trying to shoot at them
  
• Dont seem to be ping or fps related to an extend acceptable extend. At least not in a way that it would read "bad connection and/or bad PCs cause it".

[Mod Iye]

It seems there is a maximum number of quotations allowed per post, so i will have to split this one.

Part two:

Makeurtgreatagain, on 14 February 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

and the people that accually have jobs and have machines and connections made within the last 10 years get shit ....

Now i feel slightly offended. lol.

Makeurtgreatagain, on 14 February 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

you can NOT Nerf the experience for everybody because a handful of people from Europe can't seem to understand the fact that they need to run there own servers and stick to there own region and ya know NOT use B band wifi =/

Lets quickly sum up all the servers in europe and compare that number to the NA number. Oh wait.

Makeurtgreatagain, on 14 February 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

so here we are again the minority of players that only play the game because its the only thing that runs on there stone-age pc's and tin can internet get all the preference

Dont you think things would look different if it was just an insignificant minority?
Anyways. I can tell you, it happened to me during the release, and later on on nxu| and other servers, that are pretty much within my country. I also happen to have a good PC.

Makeurtgreatagain, on 14 February 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

you want a fix its simple I brought this up in a ticket a few years ago
make it adaptive run 82 snaps at 10-12 players 62 at 16-18 players and above that drop it to 42 (do not go below 42) above 80 much of the benefit scales way down anyway

Oh yes. lets rewrite netcode. Lets just rewrite the entire game. Oh wait...

Makeurtgreatagain, on 14 February 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

locking it to the lowest number is not the solution its never been the solution the solution is for people to join us in 2017 and stop expecting development to be put on hold because they can't/won't upgrade/get a job/move out of the slums whatever

Again. Entirely unnecessary accusations/whatever. You know this doesn't make anybody like you or take you more seriously?

Makeurtgreatagain, on 14 February 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

UrT takes so very very little resources to run this is inexcusable hell it was inexcusable 5 years ago

True. However, as elaborated above, its not just resources.

Makeurtgreatagain, on 14 February 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

also you need to find some new QA staff because the ones you have aren't doing there jobs your job as Quality assurance is to test the product to make sure it works for EVERYBODY not NOT favor one single use-case or downgrade a product because your testing methodology is flawed and going by what was said in the issue tracker you need to seriously re-evaluate your testing methods

Well, It did not happen to me during testing, but was an issue on release. Thats just how it is.

Makeurtgreatagain, on 14 February 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

if you do half the technical nerfing with resurgence that you do with 4.x nobody is ever gonna want to play it because its gonna end up looking like minecraft and have worse netcode then battlefield 4 did on release

1st off, UrT has always been "fun over realism". Additionally, i remember that things like shadermods and so forth exist for minecraft. Im pretty sure you can make it look pretty good. Except for well, the core gameplay element being blocks.

[Makeurtgreatagain]

idtech 3 does not tolerate crappy connections or lot of hops to a destination well the more packets you push the less tolerant it is

explain to me why UrT is the ONLY idtech 3 game that hasn't adapted the change because every single other idtech 3 game has to some extent (trem/unvarnished quakelive)

and yes crappy dual cores do not like urt because most of them are clocked <2.8Ghz and Urt Really likes to have at least 3.2 depending on the vintage of the chip because its single threaded and relies heavily good proc IPC its AMD chips have always been a lot worse because of this and certain optimizations can cause some weird QVM compiler issues that lead to hitching

and yes after reading the issue tracker I question the entire testing method because his issues SCREAM crappy connection/network overhead/terrible routing we all know that some parts of Europe are famous for issues relating to routing to some area's (OVH is particularly bad) if you are coming from the north

I am sorry MOST of them don't have a frigging clue how this accually works and where screaming 'it broke my client' IT didn't your machine/connection was questionable to begin with the increased rate just pushed it over the edge.

and yes you are going to get a certain "Grainyness" to the game if you have a jittery connection or packetloss > THIS is what results in people getting awful hits on people with network/client issues because the lag compression doesn't have enough information to work with and tries to make a best effort.

And then you run into missed frames or timing errors related to antiwarp trying to adapt to missing information about what client did what first because its not updating fast enough to account for the missing information so you get people that can shoot you 'before' your client registers they rounded that corner oR after you have seen them strafe behind that pillar the difference is just enough to give them a pretty big advantage depending on how fast they are going and how bad it is

so what happened was people that had pre-existing network issues suddenly got the full brunt of what antilag was suppose todo which is to prevent warping,combined with the increases tick allowing 'good' clients to register every single shot

so by making the netcode run as intended the people that where getting away with packet-murder now got there faces slapped with massive amounts of g_antiwarptol interrupts and where rendered into human bullets sponges because SUDDENLY HITS

certain portions of the player base are going to need to 'tough it out' because if a minor change to urt4 is gonna push them over the edge whats resurgence gonna do ....

This post has been edited by Makeurtgreatagain: 15 February 2017 - 02:15 AM

[KroniK]

Quote

certain portions of the player base are going to need to 'tough it out' because if a minor change to urt4 is gonna push them over the edge whats resurgence gonna do ....

Probably not get played much I'd imagine... XD

[Tomxor]

I think lye has done a pretty good job of debunking most of Makeurtgreatagain's comments. But a couple of his straw men are just too annoying to ignore:

Makeurtgreatagain, on 15 February 2017 - 02:00 AM, said:

and yes crappy dual cores do not like urt because most of them are clocked <2.8Ghz and Urt Really likes to have at least 3.2 depending on the vintage of the chip because its single threaded and relies heavily good proc IPC its AMD chips have always been a lot worse because of this and certain optimizations can cause some weird QVM compiler issues that lead to hitching

This is BS, Urt is fundamentally still idtech3 which is almost 20 years old, as you already admitted it is not multithreaded so cores have nothing to do with it, and 20 years ago everyone was not clocking their Pentiums at 3.2 GHz. This is not theoretical - you can easily run UrT on a 10 year old CPU, I run it on a C2D clocked at 2.4 GHz with ease and have no problems.

Also note how the trend for newer CPUs is parallelism not clock speed, many new CPUs are still clocked well under 3 GHz. CPUs are not one dimensional components, clock speed is not a good measure even for single core, especially when we are talking about CISC.

Makeurtgreatagain, on 14 February 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

...the increase in ping is caused by your connection/clients inability to handle the increased throughput which means its gotta be really REALLY REALLY terrible because urt doesn't use shit for bandwidth anyway literally the difference between 20 and 125 is less then 10KB/s so your are nerfing it because your net can't handle a extra 10KB/s WHAT

Either you don't know the difference between latency and throughput, or you don't know the limitations of ADSL. While effective latency above the transport layer is affected by your netcode's "packet" size, UrT's needs give plenty of headroom over ADSL. ADSL will affect ping in UrT directly based on latency, this is highly variable depending on line length and quality.

...

You appear to know some things about netcode and some cvars, but honestly most of what you said is so pretentious, elitist and offensive to people who were not blessed with being born in the wealthiest part of the world with a shining bundle of fibre cable protruding from their mouth, that you have devalued any truth your posts may or may not have contained.

[FS Frankie V]

Makeurtgreatagain, on 15 February 2017 - 02:00 AM, said:

explain to me why UrT is the ONLY idtech 3 game that hasn't adapted the change because every single other idtech 3 game has to some extent (trem/unvarnished quakelive)

Why is because Urban Terror is not a "game" based on the idtech3 engine but a mod based on the the idtech3 game Quake 3.

Based on fulfilling the EULA licensing requirements UrT/idtech3 has to be backwards compatible to a "game" that is now about 17 years old designed to make use of the technology at the time which by a large percentage was dial up Internet connections and 5.25 inch floppy disks. ;)

Soooooooo

All the other stuff that you might feel is of issue is moot considering what is available as far as resources goes is still bound to a 17 year old licensing agreement that can not be changed when facing obsolescence by design when of course there are better options available by switching engines, like Unreal 4 for example,and just simply consider that the game can still even run on their hand me down computer a miracle.

[rush.Killerkarla]

In Rel 4.3.2 it is not possible to set sv_allowDownload to any other value than 0.
Even the Default=1 is not working anymore, value remains always 0.

How to allow clients now to download maps from sv_dlURL ??

Opened ticket https://github.com/F...ror4/issues/393

This post has been edited by Killerkarla: 19 February 2017 - 05:32 PM

[Makeurtgreatagain]

Frankie V, on 18 February 2017 - 11:52 AM, said:

Why is because Urban Terror is not a "game" based on the idtech3 engine but a mod based on the the idtech3 game Quake 3.

Based on fulfilling the EULA licensing requirements UrT/idtech3 has to be backwards compatible to a "game" that is now about 17 years old designed to make use of the technology at the time which by a large percentage was dial up Internet connections and 5.25 inch floppy disks. ;)

Soooooooo

All the other stuff that you might feel is of issue is moot considering what is available as far as resources goes is still bound to a 17 year old licensing agreement that can not be changed when facing obsolescence by design when of course there are better options available by switching engines, like Unreal 4 for example,and just simply consider that the game can still even run on their hand me down computer a miracle.

every time one of you brings that stupid argument about the license for idtech3 which you DONT HAVE 'holding you back' I wanna jump though the monitor and beat you with a large dildo its complete and utter crap and you know it just because the rest of the community doesn't know or care does not make it OK to outright lie

secondly even if was true its not relevant to this particular change the quirks responsible for this e.g the anti-lag and ARIESII stuff have already be modified from stock point release in such as way where you are already knee deep in violating your imanagery license, you even bragged about it with the release of 4.2 your shiny new improved hitreg well that completely breaks QA mod compatibility and so does auth so there goes your argument you wanna revert that too ?

I honestly don't care there aren't enough skilled players left in UrT for it to matter but the principal is what is wrong here you cut off your nose to spite your face and manage to stab your self in the leg while doing it bravo

if you wanna succeed and live up to your aspirations of a reputable game development studio then you need to play by the rules and not bend them when it suites your purpose,you need to learn when to say its ok we fucked up we are sorry and get on with it
thankfully Barbados doesn't seem to have that problem maby he can straiten you out I am done trying

This post has been edited by Makeurtgreatagain: 04 March 2017 - 07:04 AM