[Ikslorin]

When talking about Bomb mode, you may also want to consider, that Zenity quite some time ago has suggested a very different take on the idea, which exactly goes around the problem of little movement, while still maintaining the assymetrical nature of the gametype, which is fundamentally the thing that makes it attractive. I already mentioned it here earlier, so I'm just going to be lazy and let my past self talk:

The alternate design of Bomb aluded to by Zenity at some point earlier also sounded really intriguing, unique and a nice fit for the faster paced game of Urban Terror. The idea very much being, that the bomb always is ticking, but does never as such get planted, but instead can be dropped in several bomb zones. The defending team can then move the bomb out again. So one team will always be loosing, as they need to claim and move the bomb. And with more than two bomb-zones the possibilities and places to go fit very well Urban Terror.

The reason I bring it up again, is that while debating the old can be insightful, discussing possibilities to make assymetrical gametypes are much more interesting.

[Fredrik]

Valour, on 23 March 2017 - 06:30 AM, said:

learn to accept our limitations, but also to appreciate what we can do with a 'single life'

You said it. Go look at any games history and you see it's more chaotic in the beginning, but what always happen is that players become more careful (slower play is a side effect of careful play) because the incentive to not die is so high.

Quote

Be honest, CTF public servers now are like, how we used to see TDM and FFA when we started playing CTF...am I right? It's either a situation where you wish you were scrimming because the matchup between players is arbitrary and you can't enjoy yourself unless you're mildly stoned or buzzing on coffee.

Tbf it's not uncommon with onesided teams in TS either, as you said that's the flaw of public servers. Ranked will of course fix this.

[Valour]

Fredrik, on 23 March 2017 - 12:05 PM, said:

Tbf it's not uncommon with onesided teams in TS either, as you said that's the flaw of public servers. Ranked will of course fix this.

Yeah, but it's only really a problem if the server is populated by one or more individuals who are effectively playing 'selfishly' which is a word which describes when someone knowingly 'sactrifices' others' experience of the game in favour of consciously choosing to use the physics to help them produce a better number. If this is done subtly and infrequently, it is even more frustrating.

This being said, conversely I am sure there is a comraderous way to help teammates 'pad the numbers' by adjusting ones' decision-making slightly (perhaps simply by allowing this empathy-factor to affect it) and helping to accommodate someone who is of equal skill who had made a play for the benefit of the team at the expense of their own 'stats' (more than once) and could appear to be 'struggling' in an undeserved and yet deserved way (creating a subtle vacuum for a teammate to lend a helping hand). But of course, this requires an awareness of the game mechanics, the gamesense to be able to see when someone has done/is doing so, and the decency and desire to help tip the scales in their favour in a smart way which takes into account the objective of winning. This kind of 'selfless' high-spirited play is something I would like to see more of, because it seems that wonderful things happen for us when we are doing the right stuff and teammates can trust one another (having realized that playing selfishly is rather unfun and perhaps not cool, and that playing properly is open to interpretation but it's something we can feel).

I will say that European public TS servers seem to have less 'defensive' play as I find more players embrace the 'pubic' atmosphere and focus on improving their fundamental ability and essentially practice and make the game look good rather than trying to get noticed. But, if they are, I imagine they realize that how they play and whether someone is watching them directly is more important than allowing score to become the result of their play (which may often produce a noticeable and obnoxious air indicative of a younger/inexperienced/undisciplined player with a lack of regard for others' experience and if we're being critical, the game itself).

This being said, baiting and 'caring about score' is ultimately not so much a problem as a behaviour which is part of growing and maturing as a player and likely exists in all online multiplayer games. While it is disheartening to see, it's not a big deal and it's part of the learning experience and I think it's something any veteran player will pick up on. My primary concern is simply that selfish play can make the game appear less fun than it really is. Especially in public servers, where having something extra to worry about is fine, but hopefully has nothing to do with the gross mentality I've described which, perhaps comes as the result of an unclear focus/goal in playing. Greater infrastructure and support for competitive play will fix this (hopefully).

In Team Survivor, I think having set rounds rather than playing on time would go a long way in solving the problem of avoidance (which is a step beyond defensive play) in all arenas of play and will also encourage individuals to play with a more group/team-oriented mentality which is focused on winning the map and enjoying the game (as in a good pick-up game). The natural consequence is a greater appreciation for UrT, as I imagine we will feel more comfortable (because we're having fun) and also perhaps be able to recognize more subtle shades and unique aspects which are only made possible in this kind of environment.

All in all, public TS servers provide a community atmosphere, for learning and enjoying the game as well as, perhaps, warming up and/or honing ones' skill (before joining a pug or scrimming). This is, in addition to being able to keep an eye on how other players are progressing and choosing to carry themselves. TDM and other game modes offer a similar environment, but naturally seem to be inhabited by mostly players who are focussed on game-mechanics and/or simply having fun.

This post has been edited by Valour: 23 March 2017 - 05:16 PM

[GlaD-Solitary]

BladeKiller, on 28 February 2017 - 11:20 PM, said:

ATM, we are concentrating on CTF. Once it is relatively bug and issue free, we'll look at the next game mode.

Is this a focus on wave CTF or non-wave?

I agree with the OP's general comments, if you really want the game to grow focus on the core game types: CTF, TS, TDM. Introducing more game types will fragment the community and hinder growth, or simply result in game types that are never played and dilute the pot.

Less is more.

In regards to removing TS and its campy meta, I suggest the devs allow for nades to be thrown over roof tops. Preventing nades from being thrown over rooftops was something introduced prior to 4.x, so we never really got a chance to develop a meta of countering camping with well placed nades. There are certain maps which allow this game play mechanic and they've done a good job of demonstrating the efficacy of allowing for nades to be thrown over roofs. There is a lot of skill involved in a well placed nade from fountain to the 27's alley (ut4_casa). Also it would increase the usability of the HK nade launcher.

More to the point of less is more, I also hope a design decision is made to lock the max player slots per team. ut4_abbey does not play well with 10 vs 10. Heck, it hardly plays with 6v6 either. Please introduce hard limitations on team size for the core game.

This post has been edited by Solitary: 16 September 2017 - 05:38 AM

[hg`.Gost0r]

Solitary, on 16 September 2017 - 05:36 AM, said:

Is this a focus on wave CTF or non-wave?

You can toggle waverespawn :).