FS away member
You always have the ability to start your own game company, procure funding, find a suitable building for your studio, hire a team of professional game developers, design your own game, produce it, and release it on your own schedule. All of those things would be vastly more productive then browbeating a team of amateur developers working on a free game in their spare time.
Advertisement
What are the ambitions for Resurgence ?
MultiQuote
#12
FS HappyDay 
Posted 27 June 2019 - 09:25 PM
I'm not sure what your intention is.
If your intention is to complain, then congratulations, job well done! Every few months we've got a new person complaining in a new thread about the development of urt 5 or the state of urt 4. You're not the first nor the last and we will happily continue to work on Urban Terror regardless of how many complainers walk by. :)
If your intention is to offer advice, then thank you very much! I appreciate it. Good suggestions are always welcome. Here's the thing: We've been at this for a long time, we have a team of people who are really good at what they are doing and we have long discussions about a lot of topics regarding the development of the game. It takes a bit more than a simple "Have you thought about X, you should do that" to offer meaningful advice. If you are serious about helping out, you should apply to join the team or if that's not your ambition, contact us via mail or on Discord. Professional discussions very rarely happen on public forums.
If you are here to learn about our motivations and plans, which seems to be your main intention (at least in your first post) then let me explain what FrozenSand and UrbanTerror are (at least from my point of view).
For about 20 years FrozenSand has been a team of friends who work together to create an awesome game. That is still true today. We spend our free time (and money) to learn about game development, software development, 2D art, 3D art, audio, web development, business, team management, project management, community management and marketing among other things. You are correct in saying that we are doing it for the fun, as a learning experience and to add to our portfolio/resume. Over the years several Urban Terror developers have used the project to start professionally in the game dev field, me included.
Releasing a stable, new version of Urban Terror is the major objective of the entire project - a game which lives up to high-quality standards that we have set for ourselves and our community expects, a game that's worth playing. We will not rush a release to please people who expect or demand a product right now. The (arguably) long development is a combination of the nature of our team and our standards. Comparing our development time with other indie studios or professional studios and remarking that we are "taking too long" is pointless. Team size, time investment, the complexity of the game features and quality of the final product are just some factors that go into this, most of which you cannot properly judge from the outside.
We are not developing the game to earn money. In general, more money won't make us work faster or longer hours. The majority of FS developers have full-time jobs and other life obligations that they wouldn't quit even if the project suddenly had major funding. I don't see us hiring full-time game developers either anytime soon, if at all. That would dramatically change the nature of the team and the development. It's too complex of a topic - not something I want to expand on in this thread.
Asking for money to get (early) access to the game is not something we want to do. Urban Terror has always been and will always stay free. We have mentioned before, that we are working on cosmetic in-game purchases aka skins. This doesn't mean that other sources of income won't be used or considered. The money we'll earn will most likely go into paying for our infrastructure and marketing.
Advertising the game is a very important part of the release of the game. We are taking it very seriously. You might just not have seen much because we are not there yet. In due time we'll invest more time and money into marketing the game. That's actually an area where I can see us hiring a professional because it is very difficult to find a volunteer with the required expertise to do it properly.
I wouldn't really say we are competing too much with other AAA titles. Big companies throw money at advertisers to make their game popular because they are focusing on earning money. We, on the other hand, are focusing on creating an awesome game. We really don't need millions of players for Urban Terror to be a great game that players enjoy playing. A few thousand are all that's needed. I am very deliberate in saying I don't care too much about the game being a huge success or not. However, we are dedicated to doing the development right and that's the important part. A great game is a very good selling point in itself and we already know that Urban Terror is a great game. In philosophical words: "You can't control the outcome, but if you take all the right steps along the way the outcome might be more than you hoped for."
You talk about FrozenSand not being dedicated... If spending decades of your life working on a project in your free time without payment all along while hundreds of people come along and tell you how you failed or are going to fail, isn't dedication, then I don't know what is. I for one am freaking proud of this team, of what we have achieved and of where we are headed! It is an honor to be part of it and a joy to be on this journey. I will continue to work on Urban Terror no matter what others might say and I will make sure it gets released so we can all enjoy playing this awesome game together. Because it's worth it!
P.S. Thank you for making me write this reply. Now I have something to link to for the next person coming along in a few months complaining about the development. :)
If your intention is to complain, then congratulations, job well done! Every few months we've got a new person complaining in a new thread about the development of urt 5 or the state of urt 4. You're not the first nor the last and we will happily continue to work on Urban Terror regardless of how many complainers walk by. :)
If your intention is to offer advice, then thank you very much! I appreciate it. Good suggestions are always welcome. Here's the thing: We've been at this for a long time, we have a team of people who are really good at what they are doing and we have long discussions about a lot of topics regarding the development of the game. It takes a bit more than a simple "Have you thought about X, you should do that" to offer meaningful advice. If you are serious about helping out, you should apply to join the team or if that's not your ambition, contact us via mail or on Discord. Professional discussions very rarely happen on public forums.
If you are here to learn about our motivations and plans, which seems to be your main intention (at least in your first post) then let me explain what FrozenSand and UrbanTerror are (at least from my point of view).
For about 20 years FrozenSand has been a team of friends who work together to create an awesome game. That is still true today. We spend our free time (and money) to learn about game development, software development, 2D art, 3D art, audio, web development, business, team management, project management, community management and marketing among other things. You are correct in saying that we are doing it for the fun, as a learning experience and to add to our portfolio/resume. Over the years several Urban Terror developers have used the project to start professionally in the game dev field, me included.
Releasing a stable, new version of Urban Terror is the major objective of the entire project - a game which lives up to high-quality standards that we have set for ourselves and our community expects, a game that's worth playing. We will not rush a release to please people who expect or demand a product right now. The (arguably) long development is a combination of the nature of our team and our standards. Comparing our development time with other indie studios or professional studios and remarking that we are "taking too long" is pointless. Team size, time investment, the complexity of the game features and quality of the final product are just some factors that go into this, most of which you cannot properly judge from the outside.
We are not developing the game to earn money. In general, more money won't make us work faster or longer hours. The majority of FS developers have full-time jobs and other life obligations that they wouldn't quit even if the project suddenly had major funding. I don't see us hiring full-time game developers either anytime soon, if at all. That would dramatically change the nature of the team and the development. It's too complex of a topic - not something I want to expand on in this thread.
Asking for money to get (early) access to the game is not something we want to do. Urban Terror has always been and will always stay free. We have mentioned before, that we are working on cosmetic in-game purchases aka skins. This doesn't mean that other sources of income won't be used or considered. The money we'll earn will most likely go into paying for our infrastructure and marketing.
Advertising the game is a very important part of the release of the game. We are taking it very seriously. You might just not have seen much because we are not there yet. In due time we'll invest more time and money into marketing the game. That's actually an area where I can see us hiring a professional because it is very difficult to find a volunteer with the required expertise to do it properly.
I wouldn't really say we are competing too much with other AAA titles. Big companies throw money at advertisers to make their game popular because they are focusing on earning money. We, on the other hand, are focusing on creating an awesome game. We really don't need millions of players for Urban Terror to be a great game that players enjoy playing. A few thousand are all that's needed. I am very deliberate in saying I don't care too much about the game being a huge success or not. However, we are dedicated to doing the development right and that's the important part. A great game is a very good selling point in itself and we already know that Urban Terror is a great game. In philosophical words: "You can't control the outcome, but if you take all the right steps along the way the outcome might be more than you hoped for."
You talk about FrozenSand not being dedicated... If spending decades of your life working on a project in your free time without payment all along while hundreds of people come along and tell you how you failed or are going to fail, isn't dedication, then I don't know what is. I for one am freaking proud of this team, of what we have achieved and of where we are headed! It is an honor to be part of it and a joy to be on this journey. I will continue to work on Urban Terror no matter what others might say and I will make sure it gets released so we can all enjoy playing this awesome game together. Because it's worth it!
P.S. Thank you for making me write this reply. Now I have something to link to for the next person coming along in a few months complaining about the development. :)
Have a happy day! :)
#14
Jackkyjack
Posted 28 June 2019 - 06:53 PM
This is a fun topic: How much is a dead man worth?
Topikstarter "scylk" you are troll
Topikstarter "scylk" you are troll
#15
scylk
Posted 29 June 2019 - 11:26 PM
As the title says, the purpose of the thread was to understand your ambitions for this project.
Your answer and Frankie's gave pretty good insights in that regard.
I didn't say you were not dedicated, I said you've never wanted to fully dedicate. Which you seem to confirm :
________
Well this what I mean when I say that your lack of ambition is terrible.
The community and competitive scene the game had in its prime was amazing, for a free game derived from quake 3. To me, the potential of the game was huge.
This is why I'm so frustrated by the course of its development. I can't help to see it as a terrible waste.
Your answer and Frankie's gave pretty good insights in that regard.
Quote
You talk about FrozenSand not being dedicated... If spending decades of your life working on a project in your free time without payment all along while hundreds of people come along and tell you how you failed or are going to fail, isn't dedication, then I don't know what is.
I didn't say you were not dedicated, I said you've never wanted to fully dedicate. Which you seem to confirm :
Quote
The majority of FS developers have full-time jobs and other life obligations that they wouldn't quit even if the project suddenly had major funding.
Quote
You are correct in saying that we are doing it for the fun, as a learning experience and to add to our portfolio/resume.
________
Quote
I am very deliberate in saying I don't care too much about the game being a huge success or not.
Well this what I mean when I say that your lack of ambition is terrible.
The community and competitive scene the game had in its prime was amazing, for a free game derived from quake 3. To me, the potential of the game was huge.
This is why I'm so frustrated by the course of its development. I can't help to see it as a terrible waste.
This post has been edited by scylk: 29 June 2019 - 11:27 PM
Advertisement
#16
-LG-Piano Man
Posted 30 June 2019 - 06:12 AM
scylk, on 29 June 2019 - 11:26 PM, said:
Well this what I mean when I say that your lack of ambition is terrible.
The community and competitive scene the game had in its prime was amazing, for a free game derived from quake 3. To me, the potential of the game was huge.
This is why I'm so frustrated by the course of its development. I can't help to see it as a terrible waste.
The community and competitive scene the game had in its prime was amazing, for a free game derived from quake 3. To me, the potential of the game was huge.
This is why I'm so frustrated by the course of its development. I can't help to see it as a terrible waste.
Reading through, it looks to me that you got answers to all your questions, they're just not the answers you were hoping for. And that the FS Team's current self-identity and ideologies moving to head in a different direction is nigh-improbable at this juncture.
It seems to me those feelings are something you will have to come to terms with on your own. And the information that's been presented in this thread is information with which to do what we will, and to each their own.
“And they'll say, ‘Man, what are you doing here?’”
#17
scylk
Posted 03 July 2019 - 05:48 PM
Yeah, I agree. Honestly, I don't hold any judgement for FS devs for not wanting to professionalize. I regret this choice but I respect it.
The problem is that FS falls between two stalls. They're amateurs who wanna stay amateurs, yet in the same time they act really serious, they communicate about being a company, they give all of them position titles such as CEO, Company director, Project Coordinator, Team manager, Lead developer and so on, they keep saying that they have high standards and that they're going to do an awesome game, they communicate on the development progress.
It is to be expected that people get confused and ask about their ambitions.
The problem is that FS falls between two stalls. They're amateurs who wanna stay amateurs, yet in the same time they act really serious, they communicate about being a company, they give all of them position titles such as CEO, Company director, Project Coordinator, Team manager, Lead developer and so on, they keep saying that they have high standards and that they're going to do an awesome game, they communicate on the development progress.
It is to be expected that people get confused and ask about their ambitions.
#18
KarlMariaSeeberg
Posted 04 July 2019 - 08:55 AM
scylk, on 03 July 2019 - 05:48 PM, said:
Yeah, I agree. Honestly, I don't hold any judgement for FS devs for not wanting to professionalize. I regret this choice but I respect it.
The problem is that FS falls between two stalls. They're amateurs who wanna stay amateurs, yet in the same time they act really serious, they communicate about being a company, they give all of them position titles such as CEO, Company director, Project Coordinator, Team manager, Lead developer and so on, they keep saying that they have high standards and that they're going to do an awesome game, they communicate on the development progress.
It is to be expected that people get confused and ask about their ambitions.
The problem is that FS falls between two stalls. They're amateurs who wanna stay amateurs, yet in the same time they act really serious, they communicate about being a company, they give all of them position titles such as CEO, Company director, Project Coordinator, Team manager, Lead developer and so on, they keep saying that they have high standards and that they're going to do an awesome game, they communicate on the development progress.
It is to be expected that people get confused and ask about their ambitions.
kudos!
it's rare to see a discussion in a thread lead up to an actual gain of knowledge.
i think, scylk's last comment wouldn't have been possible without the prior dicussion.
with his last comment he hit the nail right on the head.
i can relate to the frustration caused by the contradictory sitution (public image vs. actual circumstances).
if you don't like uptown, you are basically hating urban terror.
#19
FS BladeKiller
Posted 04 July 2019 - 06:02 PM
We formed a real company to pay taxes on the small amount of money we earn on the ads hence we have a CEO and directors. We just don't want to turn working on the game into a meat grinder with everyone hating what they are working on like at EA.
#20
FS Frankie V
-
FS chief admin
Assets Manager & Lead Animator
- Account: frankiev
-
Country:
- Joined: 10-January 10
- Posts: 2,910
Posted 04 July 2019 - 11:29 PM
KarlMariaSeeberg, on 04 July 2019 - 08:55 AM, said:
i can relate to the frustration caused by the contradictory sitution (public image vs. actual circumstances).
Understandable as who is FrozenSand has never been defined except for the history of starting out as a Mod under Q3 and the fact that developers of the game don't make for very good resources of what is actually going on based on areas of responsibility.
A lot of times it's guessing what kind of information is being asked as a question asked of the content team as the question would be a different answer relative to the coding team
To attempt to solve the problem we are planning on adding Community Managers
doing "stuff" with dead things.
1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users
Advertisement