[mrp (old)]

i think salamander, your points on casa are quite true in most respects ... however casa ts played doesnt pan out quite as you suggest it should ...

The only real chokepoint i see in casa is at market/alley timbers .. mainly due to the fact that there are 3 ways to attack any position in and out of patio / fountain .. ( altho surely patio is the harder side to attack from, but then they have spawns which allow them to arrive @ the chokepoints slightly earlier ) .. there is only really 1 area which allows transition directly from patio -- > market .. and if the other team are already in market its basically suicide, unless you have good backup .

I do agree however that some areas which have blind corners for example .. make defending that area from one side much easier .. especially for a good sniper shot, generally giving fountain spawn the advantage (narrow side hallway for example .. altho nades over narrow + attacking from central / mainsquare can free up this area quite effectively... which is why i was mortified when i heard somebody mention casa was getting clipped)

I find the casa spawns are such, however, that the team who spawns patio side regularly have a greater chance to successfully rush @ the start of round, usurping those chokepoints before fountain gets settled into them ..

Personally i dont find casa ts as slow, or as difficult to move in as your chokepoint theory may suggest.. for some of the reasons stated above .

Thats probably why i would have put a TS next to it

tub .. for bomb maps i think its always a mistake to place blue spawn directly at a bombsite.. because in effect this renders that bombsite the less popular one .. only really viable for plant a while into the round ..

Take de_dust for example (yes cs ughhh) the site which ct's spawn is hardly ever planted at .. whereas the other one frequently gets use ..
for dust2 both sites are used equally as effectively because the spawn is a bit between both.

i think this is a problem with algiers + abbey2 bm at the moment .. in abbey2 especially this renders the spawn bombsite absolutely useless for the attacking team .. and i would suggest the site be moved further out .. say to marble courtyard for example.. (infact i could prolly provide demos of the uk team playing abbey2 in cw to display how we totally ignore the spawn site because u get smacked down everytime you try)

Algiers perhaps could use a spawn adjustment .. placing it behind the interior maybe? .. altho i feel that interior is slightly narrow and complicated as it stands at the moment .. too many stairs + doors and confined space i feel.

i hope u take this as the constructive criticism it was intended as we always prefer to play abbey2 as our 2nd map for bm btw .. just feel you could make the 2nd site come into play more.[/b]

[samalander (old)]

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All my beta3 maps are mainly designed around bomb. The fact that ctf works so well with algiers is more good luck than good judgment, though with an L shaped map its not too suprising.

In any case Salamander, as always, I'm open to suggestions.

Well, to be fair, I could just not like Algiers because it is too small in bomb for my tastes

I think Village 2 is a good bomb map, but the difficulty of attacking the enclosed bomb site area after a sucessful plant makes defense a real hassle. You have to gamble to not lose that site. As for Abbey2, well, I like it now, and that stuff you've done in 3.5... makes me quite happy.

To be fair, although I can't remember for sure, I think blue might actually be the easier of the two sides.

mrp> Depends where you are playing. I've seen TS matches between good clans where it _does_ pan out that way. I think this may be because of how NA players play, but the fact is it happens, unfortunately .

Also, on NA pubs, Casa is one of the slowest, most campy TS maps, second only to Docks.

You make a good point about the patio courtyard being able to rush... but on most pubs, because the areas you can rush from are so tiny, you either rush alone or with someone else and get grenaded or shot in the leg by an auto and then sr8d. No fun

[tub (old)]

mrp: de_dust has to be the most played bomb map ever made. Perhaps a bad example of what not to do.

I think it is more likley that one bomb site is used more often because it is closer and easier to get to. Not because of the spawn positions. Extrapolating this idea to de_dust2, i think the fact that the bomb sites are the same distance from the ct's spawn is what makes there use more balanced.

Update: Err. I meant the terrorists spawn sorry, not the ct's.

I think de_prodigy is a good exaple of the spawn position not really affecting where the bomb is placed.

As for moving the bomb site in abbey to the marble courtyard, I have been seriously considering it.

[mrp (old)]

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mrp: de_dust has to be the most played bomb map ever made. Perhaps a bad example of what not to do.

I think it is more likley that one bomb site is used more often because it is closer and easier to get to. Not because of the spawn positions. Extrapolating this idea to de_dust2, i think the fact that the bomb sites are the same distance from the ct's spawn is what makes there use more balanced.

I think de_prodigy is a good exaple of the spawn position not really affecting where the bomb is placed.

As for moving the bomb site in abbey to the marble courtyard, I have been seriously considering it.

heh de_dust is a great map indeed .. i just wanted to highlight how a spawn bombsite generally gets overlooked ..

i dont know that it effects algiers greatly (certainly the defenders need to move fast to secure the bombsite they dont spawn at, giving opportunity to attack the spawn site) because ive only played it once in cw.. but for abbey 2 you may as well play a 5 man defence @ statue site .. in fact we play a 4 man defence there when blue and in the matches we have played it is quite possibly one of the lowest scoring bomb maps .. with scores like 3-1 not being uncommon (clanbase bomb rules) .

Personally i think its because abbey2 only has 1 bombsite which could be considered viable at the moment.

i also agree that distance from attackers spawn effects which site will be attacked, altho i dont believe defenders spawn doesnt play a part in it also ;x

[samalander (old)]

The thing about Abbey2 is that it is one of the most balanced bomb maps out there. While the statue site might seem easier at first, I can assure you that with only one person defending the spawn place, you'd lose in a NA clan match. I know because I've killed tons of single defenders in that area before plants

[mrp (old)]

[quote name='"samalander"]The thing about Abbey2 is that it is one of the most balanced bomb maps out there. While the statue site might seem easier at first' date=' I can assure you that with only one person defending the spawn place, you'd lose in a NA clan match. I know because I've killed tons of single defenders in that area before plants [/quote']

enemy rush binds r a simple thing ... and once that one dummy is down (hopefully he took some down with him) its not rocket science to quickly fallback ..

Believe me we always try spawn rushes when we play abbey and they never pay off.. you dont even get chance to plant because a good sniper has many places to hide.. and the entrances arent exactly large.