[phd]

A - The fact that the character (and probably the hit mesh) moves instantly from a position to another when in crouch position is probably the worst problem. It looks weird and probably affects the hits as well. IMO, if there would be a fix for animation in the future it should address this first.

B - Then, the straight torso while running look awkward. Bending the torso is one solution, but you can leave it straight as long as you make it lean forward a bit.

C - The relax position. There is a "disconnection" between the fact that the enemy looks like he is writing in console, while he is actually aiming at your head. Maybe the relax position is not meant for UrT, or maybe it should be accompanied by the cross-air disappearing (I would NOT want that.)

D - The knifing, medding and reloading animations are much better than before.

[wTf|beautifulNihilist]

If you really want to test hits, try loading up a skeetshoot2012 server in 4.1(.1) and try it again in 4.2

My hits are so much better I can't believe there's any question. The fix that I see immediately is the smoothness and reliability of how the skeet move. In 4.1(.1), at any given time it was impossible to determine if the target was before the shot, after the shot, or right under the shot as all characters moving that fast seem to wiggle in space, like they are in 3 places at once, as the move.
In 4.2, I still notice the PSG seems to 'fire slower' than the SR8, but the moving characters don't wiggle. AT ALL. The skeet are in the exact place I am aiming and they glide fluidly through the air.


THE ANIMATIONS, HOWEVER:
With all the guns held at a low profile, it's extremely hard to tell where anyone is aiming. Specifically when crouching, there is no difference on a playermodel scoped in or not. In many cases, someone seems to be standing still, gun pointed down to the side, and they are actually firing at me. As a matter of taste, 4.1(.1) animations were graceful, 4.2 animations are spastic. The way we insta-crouch even in the air I feel could be smoothed out a bit. We should still instantly crouch, just as fast as the player notices they crouch, but the animation doesn't move from a standing position to a crouching position intuitively; it looks like they teleport and it makes them hard to predict in a firefight. There's quite a few transitions between actions that are really hard to predict.

It took quite a few hours to deprogram the way I use to lead my targets, predicting them to behave as I am used to, but the hits are amazing. I really don't care about the animations; especially with the updater, now we can smooth off the rough edges. Syncing-up the target to the animations fixed all that I ever cared about.
If you changed all the characters to soft-cell shaded teddy bears I could care less, so long as I get my headshots.


People will whine, I thank you all for providing a safe place to shoot them in the face.

[Noxtty8]

The only only thing that bothers me, is the jumping animation, the legs.. why they keep moving in the air, I mean.. they don't have to keep moving, they were good as in 4.1.1.

[[T]BludShoT]

Frankie V, on 06 August 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

We can not go back to 4.1 models and animations

But you can redo the 4.2 animations to be identical to the 4.1 animations, which is all anybody effectively means when they say revert to how it was in 4.1. (People don't understand the way things actually work behind the scenes.) But because you say this, which is technically true, on a level that doesn't mean anything to non developer gamers, I keep seeing players say that it's impossible to make the 4.2 animations go back to what they looked like in 4.1, which can't be what you mean, I don't suppose.

Or do you also mean that you actually can't make the 4.2 animations be just like the 4.1 animations? (Not saying you would want to do that, but I don't understand why it wouldn't be possible.)

Frankie V, on 06 August 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

Animations.

Bottom line animations will be improved but as the only person working on them I would appreciate a much more concise break down of what is not only bad but what is good as well. Be assured there is no ego involved here but rather an issue in that I can only take things so far where what is important to fix is lost in the 1000+ keyframes and I'm but just one person making all of the decisions.

Overall though be nice and talk to us and not at us and we will change it as it's not that big of a deal to change a few key frames and issue a new set via the updater. Saying that the animations suck with out explanation does not help and only delays what could be a positive improvement.

Since you are making this plea for specific feedback I will post here (since now I'm not sure if you have seen posts elsewhere on this topic which do address some of this but your question makes it kinda sorta sound like you didn't hear those things yet, although maybe you did).

Firstly, the animations in 4.1 were fine. For years we used them and I don't remember anyone ever saying "Urt needs new animations". So that suggests the 4.1 animations were sufficient. So on the surface it would seem there was no good reason to change them - if it's not broke, don't fix it. But, my understanding is that FS wanted to improve hit detection by using a new system that would require redoing the models and animations. (Although now we're seeing hit detection problems way worse than in 4.1 and people are doubtful that this new hit detection actually will be better. But I'm hopeful that the new system actually will be better than 4.1 once those bugs are worked out though.)

So yeah, then, naturally at that point, you would think ok that gives us a chance to update the animations and make them nicer, which certainly sounds reasonable and achievable.

As far as what parts of the new animations are good, I don't really have much of an opinion on that. Since I was happy with the 4.1 animations and didn't feel the desire for something new or better, the good things are probably lost on me. That doesn't mean there's nothing good in them, there probably is but I would leave the reporting of what's good to those who appreciate such things more than me.

Here is my attempt at a clear breakdown of what is bad, in no specific order:

1. The models all run around leaning back. Looks silly.

2. In 3rd person, your gun doesn't stay aimed at what you're aiming at. For autos you hold it to your chest, and for pistols you hold them down by your side and run around like a monkey. I really don't like this because in 4.1 (and all urt and quake before it) you could see where a guy was aiming by where his gun was pointing. Now you don't know if he's really aiming at you. Then when he fires his gun it goes up to the aiming position. That also doesn't match the 1st person animation which has you aiming all the time (like the 3rd person did in 4.1). It gives you the feeling of flukeyness and randomness that people who didn't have you in their sights are suddenly shooting exactly at you and you are caught unaware. It adds nothing to the game experience and arguably (the argument I just outlined) detracts from it. I would prefer the old way. (Also, watch a guy nading while sliding and it looks quite silly, I assume for the same 'non aiming' pose reasons.)

This change isn't merely a cosmetic issue, or about how fluid the player moves his arm or something. It has a semi-major impact on the game experience, and I think a lot of people are turned off by it. A lot of people probably can't even put their finger on this, but just "feel" like the game feels worse and random now because of it, but without breaking it down to exactly why.

In my opinion, these non-aiming poses are only suitable for a game like ArmA.


3. I think some of the death animations take just a fraction too long. I know you want some more dynamism to them than the old 4.1 insta-stiff deaths, but, I feel like in Source engine games you have that dynamism from ragdoll, but even then, when you shoot a guy down, he extremely quickly flops down and into his final position. But in 4.2, for example, there is one death animation where the girl falls onto her back, and then sticks her legs into the air and spreads them till the final position. It feels too slow or too exaggerated, like I'm watching an animation in less than full speed. It may be that the number of frames available, the 'resolution' of the animations that you are able to do in md3/q3 are just not detailed enough to allow for deaths that 'complex' while also making them look proper. So perhaps such ambitious death animations (as that specific one) just can't be done well and should be reconsidered.

I noticed I kept shooting at people after I already killed them, like "STAY DOWN!" Won't feel good in a match to get killed by another enemy while I'm busy "finishing off" an enemy that is actually already dead. Reminds me of the death animations in Soldier of Fortune, although those were much worse in this regard, (some of?) these in 4.2 contain like 10% soldier of fortune in them, which is 10% too much imo.


4. Apparently when you die crouched, you stand back up again as part of some of the death animations. That's confusing to gamers who are going to have a hard time identifying that they got the kill, since the guy is standing up. Would be fantastic if you could detect crouch position on death and then force a crouch specific death animation.

5. Look at this at around 50 seconds and on (I tried to link to that time but this forum just posts the whole video) The ducking animation is glitchy. The player's body jerks back and forth like some kind of 2 frame mike tyson boxing animation. So you could be aiming right at a guy and suddenly his body isn't there anymore, in 1 frame it's flicked fully to the left or right instead of a smooth transition. The video shows nothing like that happens in 4.1. That sort of thing directly impacts the feel of playing the game and your ability to get hits.

6. Also, on a more subjective note, (as I observed when I watched the full video above) I feel like in the 4.1 animations there is a greater connection between the model and the world. Like the model does seem to be walking on that ground etc. But the 4.2 animations seem to be floating unconnected to the world. Precisely why, or being able to actually measure that would take the skills of an animator which I don't have.

7. Related to #2, because of the new non-aiming poses, the player looks pretty stupid during many movements. Someone said "The animations look like a preschool flippy book. Not to insult but thats how it looks when someone is circle jumping. Randomly your arms fall down to your sides and stay there like your some akward old man singing infront of a large audiance." If #2 was changed to look like how it was in 4.1, then comments like this guy's would no longer be made, and they constitute a good chunk of what people don't like about the 4.2 animations when they say "this sux".

8. There is a noticeable jerkyness in the leg(s) during crouching, like some frames of animation are missing.


My honest suggestion is to just redo the animations frame for frame to mimic the old 4.1 animations, with maybe some little improvements here and there. There was nothing wrong with them. Or at least some compromise between that and what 4.2 shipped with. My biggest issue though is the non-aiming poses.

If we get to the point where the new animations don't detract from the game, and all the work on them is what resulted in new better hit detection, then players will be cheering in the streets :)



PS: Also, as a side note, in my opinion, the opinions of fanboys and yes men are as un-useful as those on the other end of the spectrum (those who rage and say nothing useful and just say "this sux"). "These are great, you will get used to them" vs "These suck, I will never get used to them". You can get used to having poor vision, or a limp, or driving a car that smells - that doesn't make it good.

People play this game at different levels. At the lower level, frankly it doesn't matter what the animations are like, and it barely matters what the hits are like. You could barely tell the difference in the cluster-muck that is a too-full pub server of noobs spamming each other all day long. Or, even in a good pub, it's still a more casual gaming experience with more relaxed requirements.

[[T]BludShoT]

beautifulNihilist, on 06 August 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

There's quite a few transitions between actions that are really hard to predict.

^This

[pwngej00lius]

[quote name='BludShoT' timestamp='1344287588' post='332006']


now thats some killer feedback. I didnt mean to insult anyone with my previous post of "this is the future... deal with it" I just hate the haters hating all over something that's 1. free to begin with, 2. Improved on many levels not even related to animation, 3. Obviously trending towards even better (HD) improvements, and 4... I cant think of a 4.

I don't think it sucks.

[hieronymuz]

Watch it in highest quality and full screen

[Truth]

Animations:


Things I don't like:

-In 4.1 you could tell where a person was looking/aiming by where their gun was pointed. In 4.2 the gun is pointed away most of the time unless the person is in the act of shooting. I would prefer if the weapon remained in the 'firing' pose at all times if possible

-The knife animations are now stabbing instead of slicing, when you are clearly slicing in first person.

-The crouching pose looks like you are leaning forward way too much

-The death animation takes too long/is too dramatic. A player who is shot in the back while crouched suddenly stands up and then falls backwards, this is very unintuitive.

-When a player has the flag, the flag floats quite far behind their back


Things I do like:

-The more detailed reloading animations



In general, the animations take such a long time that you will often perform actions that cause new animations to start before the old animation has finished. I would suggest simplifying the commonly performed animations and speeding up the time it takes to perform them.

I think the reason why hits feel off right now is due at least partially to the new animations.

[FS Frankie V]

BludShoT, on 06 August 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

Since you are making this plea for specific feedback I will post here (since now I'm not sure if you have seen posts elsewhere on this topic which do address some of this but your question makes it kinda sorta sound like you didn't hear those things yet, although maybe you did).

Yup I heard them please stand by.

[FSK405|Reflux]

Truth, on 06 August 2012 - 10:39 PM, said:

Animations:


Things I don't like:

-In 4.1 you could tell where a person was looking/aiming by where their gun was pointed. In 4.2 the gun is pointed away most of the time unless the person is in the act of shooting. I would prefer if the weapon remained in the 'firing' pose at all times if possible

Agreed, however certain shooting positions have the same problem.
http://www.urbanterr...lash-direction/

Truth, on 06 August 2012 - 10:39 PM, said:

-The knife animations are now stabbing instead of slicing, when you are clearly slicing in first person.

I like the new stabbing since it's a bit more realistic that I'm going to try and stab you than attempt to bonk you with the butt of my knife.

Truth, on 06 August 2012 - 10:39 PM, said:

-The crouching pose looks like you are leaning forward way too much

To restate the obvious, the running looks like you have a stick up your butt. The torso is too rigid.