[Ntr]

KroniK, on 04 September 2015 - 01:02 AM, said:

@ntr

Telling someone to just "Figure it out" is bullshit. Circle jumping is confusing for anyone used to COD or CS or any other shooter on the planet besides quake. I'll tell you from experience that the "Gameplay and fun factor" is virtually zero in this game when you watch people fly around the map and no one can explain how they are doing it, and you just keep getting killed cause you are so much slower than everyone else. learning the basic game mechanics should be covered for newbies who want to learn. Im not saying make it mandatory or anything, just provide a way to teach the basic skills to people who want to know how the game mechanics work. I always use tutorials on all the games I play because I want to understand how the game is meant to be played before I just jump in blind.


I would like to see a tutorial map that comes default with the game and has its own menu option which would launch you directly into the tutorial. This way newbies have easy access to understanding the game mechanics.

You sir are boring.
I played this game long before wall jumping was even a concept. And when it came it took me less than a week to get a hang of it.
I played damn near every online shooter worth playing and the only "tutorial" any given player will ever need is in the options menu, under controls.

I can't imagine a person saying "oh yes i got this cool new game, let me watch/play a tutorial before i actually start having fun".
Wanna learn how to play? Jump on a server, blind as a bat, and have some damn fun learning the ropes.
No damn 30 minute tutorial or a crappy single player mode will ever bring the experience of playing against real opponents or make you learn how to play a game.
That's just ridiculously pathetic IMO.

When i buy a new phone i dont read the damn manual, to learn how to operate it, i turn the damn thing on and learn how to use it by....oh ok, wait for....just a second now....BY USING IT.
wow never thought of that, i might just learn how to play a game by jumping on a server and playing it.
Maybe FS should release a PDF with useful instructions like how to reload a gun, how to crouch or how to start the game by double clicking UrT icon.

If circle jumping is confusing...then you might want to stick to actually simple games like tetris.
Or you haven't read the tutorial for that yet.

This post has been edited by Ntr: 05 September 2015 - 11:06 PM

[FS Zenity]

Quality tutorials are hard (especially for volunteer projects), and they are even harder when we talk about concepts of "physics abuse". Circle jumping isn't a basic mechanic, and it can't be explained with a button press or two. Generally, FPS tutorials barely explain more than WASD and press mouse1 to fire...

Also, explaining the concepts is not going to make you good at it. In fact, for a completely new player even asking them to cross a small circle jump distance could be too tall of an order, and putting things in a tutorial which players may not actually be able to do is not a good idea.

When you get into the game and everybody runs circles around you, that's a bit like entering a boxing competition and being knocked out on the first blow. You are not going to feel any better about it if anybody tells you the basic idea of how to land a powerful punch. What you need is guided training and the ability to test yourself with more appropriate sparring partners.

At best, a basic tutorial could explain the concepts and showcase the possibilities, so you know what's going on while being steamrolled.


The ideal situation would be this:

1) An active community with a healthy amount of new players at any given time, so you can gradually learn the basics of the game while playing with many other newcomers. Generally people consider a game "dead" only when there are no more / not enough people to play with, but another form of "dead" is when there are no more / not enough newcomers to play with. You could say it is "dead for new players" and unfortunately Urban Terror has long reached this stage. The goal for HD must be to resuscitate it, or else the whole exercise is pointless. A game that is "dead for new players" is essentially on life support, since old players aren't going to be around forever.

2) A solid jump/parkour mode with advanced practice/tutorial maps where players can gradually improve their skills. There are already some good community maps for this, although they generally start at a very high skill level.

[Ikslorin]

Zenity, on 06 September 2015 - 02:21 PM, said:

At best, a basic tutorial could explain the concepts and showcase the possibilities, so you know what's going on while being steamrolled.

Which is actually the exact way I learned to circle jump. I had heard several people talk about it in the chat, but I only knew it was the term for whatever I had to do to be awesome. Only when I watched someone on YouTube doing a circle jump on merely a plane it clicked for me. So, I learned circle jumping through a video of someone just gaining speed jumping, with no obstacles or anything to complicate it.

Some points to (possibly) consider.

• Showing a person how to circlejump with W + Sprint held down constantly, so that the bulk of the work is in the mouse-movement, makes for an easy (enough) concept to read/understand. Just add as a note, that it is better to use all of WASD to make the mouse free, but that it is more difficult.
  
• In the tutorial the example may not be a pit to overcome, but just a time to beat. It shows/teaches the most basic circle jumping, and even if the player crouches all the way, they can still proceed.

Since a tutorial would not be obligatory, adding it just for the few, who would benefit from it, sounds to me for enough of a reason to have it.

Make what you want of these few lines.

This post has been edited by Ikslorin: 10 September 2015 - 03:11 PM

[KarlMariaSeeberg]

we talked about this .. no manpower or will to do it, obviously:

http://www.urbanterr...o-aka-tutorial/

[Mod Iye]

So after all this discussion seems to be about explaining criclejumps now. :)
IMO: just dont. name it, link it, but dont make it part of a tutorial.

Basically a tutorial should tell you stance modes, movement modes, walljumps, stamina and healing.
Takes about 2 mintues to do just that. and that would be enough.
All introduced by a 1st time start popup with 3 buttons: "set your settings", "play the tutorial", "jump into action".

After all, the existence of a tutorial is preferable to its non-existence (possibly making new players drop the game before they saw all its possibilities)

Sure that doesn't help you about getting your ass kicked if you join a game at first, but after all you at least know what kills you....

[Ikslorin]

KarlMariaSeeberg, on 06 September 2015 - 09:52 PM, said:

we talked about this .. no manpower or will to do it, obviously:
http://www.urbanterr...o-aka-tutorial/

If it's a video tutorial, I'll do it even though it's not what we're exactly looking for... if not, I would contribute as much as I can.

Iye, on 06 September 2015 - 10:34 PM, said:

So after all this discussion seems to be about explaining criclejumps now. :)
IMO: just dont. name it, link it, but dont make it part of a tutorial.

The discussion has moved in that direction, since showing WASD, shooting, stances, walljumps and healing are almost trivial to do.

What sets circlejumping apart from the rest, is that it is so much more difficult to explain, but just as important.

This post has been edited by Ikslorin: 08 September 2015 - 06:03 PM

[KarlMariaSeeberg]

i personally feel that this should not be a video but should work like an interactive tutorial on a map.

you get a task and you have to accomplish it and there should be nothing to trival to implement.

urt got a hell lot to customize. i think getting new players used to the console and commands would be great. it would be great if this was part of the tutorial, if this was a task as well.

if you read the old thread you will find that i elaborate on that.

my idea was to break jumps down to the most basic movement patterns.

a tutorial should actually help you master a jump by making the technique to do it accessable.

building the usual map and shoving the player close to the edge, telling him to just do the jump would fail to meet that requirement.

if i was to choose, i'd have an (sub)urban themed map for this tutorial, something like elgin, uptown or thingley.

This post has been edited by KarlMariaSeeberg: 08 September 2015 - 10:08 AM

[KroniK]

KarlMariaSeeberg, on 08 September 2015 - 09:20 AM, said:

i personally feel that this should not be a video but should work like an interactive tutorial on a map.

you get a task and you have to accomplish it and there should be nothing to trival to implement.

urt got a hell lot to customize. i think getting new players used to the console and commands would be great. it would be great if this was part of the tutorial, if this was a task as well.

if you read the old thread you will find that i elaborate on that.

my idea was to break jumps down to the most basic movement patterns.

a tutorial should actually help you master a jump by making the technique to do it accessable.

building the usual map and shoving the player close to the edge, telling him to just do the jump would fail to meet that requirement.

if i was to choose, i'd have an (sub)urban themed map for this tutorial, something like elgin, uptown or thingley.

I need to go read your thread, but essentially I completely agree. Maybe if I have a little time, I can try and work on building a tutorial map, and ask for it to be implemented into the base game. I have a bit of a vision on how to do it but I need the time to work on it.

Another thing is understanding how much FS will allow me to mess with the blueprints for the map to allow for some things that would be in a tutorial like a quick cut scene or a graphic that pops up or forcing a player to reach an objective or they cant move on etc.

Anyway, maybe I'll try creating a basic write up on exactly what a player needs to do, plus a quick map sketch and see what people think.

[Cuchi]

I think a fast tutorial for new players and no obligatory is not a bad idea

[Dark-knight]

I'd say having a map like ut4_HappyJumptutorial is good enough as a tutorial, but if you wanted to make a more realistic urban looking map, then I have to insist that you make it work like HappyJumpTutorial. Using the same red lines to guide the player onto the correct path about which moves to make, and you could even play that one green screen map and cut out pictures of the player in various positions and make them into sprites that you insert into the map just like the red lines from HappyJumpTutorial. You could even make the sprites move along a path if you wanted them too, kind of turning it into a sort of Pseudo-ghost racer thing like they have in racing games.