Wave spawn is just.. horrible. It makes spawn camping so easy.
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UrbanZone CTF 5v5 League want your opinion!
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#13
tombanius (old) 
- Joined: 27-April 07
- Posts: 45
- LocationHelsinki, Finland
Posted 27 August 2008 - 12:44 PM
imo wave spawn makes spawn camping harder since you get like 3-5 dudes at once to kill, instead of having them one by one.
#14
wdp (old)
- Joined: 03-May 08
- Posts: 74
Posted 27 August 2008 - 01:06 PM
Hello,
as you may know i'm not playing very good at CTF, nor i'm playing CTF in a League. I just play sometimes on pubs or get raped in fun pcws
Anyway. As this Rule Change could be interesting for gamemodes like TDM, too, i wanna post my ideas and thought about it here.
Well first of all, is it really balancing? A Team chooses ut4_turnpike - Because they know "hey guys, we're good at turnpike". The Opponent is choosing the color (red or blue) thats for my understanding balanced. At high skilled Teams it shouldn't matter what color was picked tbh, but i may be wrong with my opinion on this. On some Maps you have the problem, that you're easy to see (ut4_turnpike is a grey/blue/silver map - from the colors it's better to play blue and not red - because red can be easily seen and spotted. - at ut4_uptown the same, red is seen easily. And on ut4_algiers? Blue is easily seen) - So this idea would balance a bit in cases where the color matters. But tbh: Does the color matter? Are there Teams in UrT that suck with red side and are gods with blue side and vice versa? I like the idea and indeed i think it'll help balancing - BUT IMHO it will only balance at some teams, not at all teams. The same for "uneven" maps. It will help some teams and some not. So dunno whether it'll be balance.
As written above, i think it's a good idea and i would give it a try. There are still some problems with this idea - The gameplay becomes more difficult to realize. i've seen it at some posts at uz, and i saw it at echain - some clans aren't understanding or even reading how the "scoring" works. Let's say you have a new Clan in Urban Zone who wants to win - He will everytime looking at the flag captures they made to shout at his team "come on guys!!!!" - tbh he'll ask you after the match "who won?" - and let's look at it from the administrative part: The choosen maps are casa and turnpike. As timelimit you've selected 10 minutes. After 10 minutes playing turnpike, you have either to restart the map, or before set the nextmap to turnpike, too. After everything got loaded you have to do swap teams and teams have to ready up again. (look at the time consumption. ppl take those "pauses" for a little cigarette break - so calculate at least 5 minutes per pause ((Pauses*5) + (Maptime+Maptime+Maptime+Maptime)) == ((3*5=15) + (10+10+10+10=40) = 55 - And as we all know, those 55 Minutes can easily go up to 1 hour and more.).
Another option would be not to reload the map - instead just call a timeout after exactly 10 minutes (maybe with a bot?) swap teams and so on. I think that it won't be that easy to administrate. And while games at urban zone are normally without a referee as far as i know (maybe i'm wrong) imagine what happens if newbie clans have to deal arround with this system.
Go for it, but keep those difficult things in mind.
as you may know i'm not playing very good at CTF, nor i'm playing CTF in a League. I just play sometimes on pubs or get raped in fun pcws
Anyway. As this Rule Change could be interesting for gamemodes like TDM, too, i wanna post my ideas and thought about it here.Quote
But now, we have been asking our selfs whether or not we should take a measure to reduce the effect of asymmetric maps and provide a more balanced competitive playground.
Well first of all, is it really balancing? A Team chooses ut4_turnpike - Because they know "hey guys, we're good at turnpike". The Opponent is choosing the color (red or blue) thats for my understanding balanced. At high skilled Teams it shouldn't matter what color was picked tbh, but i may be wrong with my opinion on this. On some Maps you have the problem, that you're easy to see (ut4_turnpike is a grey/blue/silver map - from the colors it's better to play blue and not red - because red can be easily seen and spotted. - at ut4_uptown the same, red is seen easily. And on ut4_algiers? Blue is easily seen) - So this idea would balance a bit in cases where the color matters. But tbh: Does the color matter? Are there Teams in UrT that suck with red side and are gods with blue side and vice versa? I like the idea and indeed i think it'll help balancing - BUT IMHO it will only balance at some teams, not at all teams. The same for "uneven" maps. It will help some teams and some not. So dunno whether it'll be balance.
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For 3 seasons now, we have been using a system where a match consist out of 2 maps of 20 minutes, each chosen by the teams, where the other team can pick side on the map of choice of the opponent. The team with most flag captures on a map wins that map.
Now some of us believe that if we should chance this to a system where a match consist out of 2 maps of 20 minutes, each chosen by the teams, but both teams will be playing 10 minutes each side. As before, the team with most flag captures on a map wins.
Now some of us believe that if we should chance this to a system where a match consist out of 2 maps of 20 minutes, each chosen by the teams, but both teams will be playing 10 minutes each side. As before, the team with most flag captures on a map wins.
As written above, i think it's a good idea and i would give it a try. There are still some problems with this idea - The gameplay becomes more difficult to realize. i've seen it at some posts at uz, and i saw it at echain - some clans aren't understanding or even reading how the "scoring" works. Let's say you have a new Clan in Urban Zone who wants to win - He will everytime looking at the flag captures they made to shout at his team "come on guys!!!!" - tbh he'll ask you after the match "who won?" - and let's look at it from the administrative part: The choosen maps are casa and turnpike. As timelimit you've selected 10 minutes. After 10 minutes playing turnpike, you have either to restart the map, or before set the nextmap to turnpike, too. After everything got loaded you have to do swap teams and teams have to ready up again. (look at the time consumption. ppl take those "pauses" for a little cigarette break - so calculate at least 5 minutes per pause ((Pauses*5) + (Maptime+Maptime+Maptime+Maptime)) == ((3*5=15) + (10+10+10+10=40) = 55 - And as we all know, those 55 Minutes can easily go up to 1 hour and more.).
Another option would be not to reload the map - instead just call a timeout after exactly 10 minutes (maybe with a bot?) swap teams and so on. I think that it won't be that easy to administrate. And while games at urban zone are normally without a referee as far as i know (maybe i'm wrong) imagine what happens if newbie clans have to deal arround with this system.
Go for it, but keep those difficult things in mind.
#15
tombanius (old)
- Joined: 27-April 07
- Posts: 45
- LocationHelsinki, Finland
Posted 27 August 2008 - 01:27 PM
Are colours an issue? to some extent yes. I feel as though the layout of the map is alot more important. In TP for example, blue is bit easier to play for most teams in my experience. As for the new proposed scoring system, it does take a little time to comprihend, maybe one or two matches. But you can counter that by posting examples of who wins when situation XYZ happens. There's a setting in urt which automaticly swaps sides and starts a "second half", i believe it was made for bomb mode originally. As for the referees in matches issue, well usually in league season we try hard to make the new teams first matches refereed, and generally we did have referees for about propably bit under half of the matches last season. The cup was bit different, it was supposed to be the teams doing things alot more themselves because referees and admins wanted some time off also 
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#16
|it|Nexu
Posted 27 August 2008 - 02:02 PM
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Well first of all, is it really balancing? A Team chooses ut4_turnpike - Because they know "hey guys, we're good at turnpike".
The issue here is the imbalance of the "arena" not the imbalance between the knowledge OR skills between the participants.
Compare it with a soccer match where one team has a strong wind against (speed and momentum on the ball shot will reduce much quicker) and the bright shining sun at a low angle in their face (harder to see balls coming in from the air).
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On some Maps you have the problem, that you're easy to see (ut4_turnpike is a grey/blue/silver map - from the colors it's better to play blue and not red - because red can be easily seen and spotted. - at ut4_uptown the same, red is seen easily. And on ut4_algiers? Blue is easily seen) - So this idea would balance a bit in cases where the color matters.
Some people are color blind and can't see red at all. Some people need glasses to see their screen. Some people has a neck injury which reduce their time to sit behind a monitor ... these are obviously "handicaps" of the participant we have no influence on. One person can see blue on uptown just perfectly fine where other people might have more trouble with that.
These kind of handicap is much like skill differences.
But yeah the visibility of a character model is somewhat an issue. That's why [T]Bludshot suggested a brightskin for competition use to even it up for everyone.
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some clans aren't understanding or even reading how the "scoring" works. Let's say you have a new Clan in Urban Zone who wants to win - He will everytime looking at the flag captures they made to shout at his team "come on guys!!!!" - tbh he'll ask you after the match "who won?"
The team with most flag captures on a map wins. Sounds pretty simple rule to me.
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and let's look at it from the administrative part: The choosen maps are casa and turnpike. As timelimit you've selected 10 minutes. After 10 minutes playing turnpike, you have either to restart the map, or before set the nextmap to turnpike, too.
seta g_swaproles "1" // when map is over, play it again with the teams swapped (recommended for bombmode). After that, change map. 0=change map immediatly when map is over, no swapping of teams
#20
Mauri (old)
- Joined: 12-January 05
- Posts: 353
- LocationLisbon, Portugal
Posted 28 August 2008 - 03:06 PM
I dont play in that league since the 1st edition but I'll throw my opinion here anyway.
The new model presented is far more interesting than the old one. I'd even go further in the changes and basically use STA's competition format which is, in my opinion, still the best format for CTF. For those in here who don't know how STA CTF works, the admins basically choose 1 map a week that is to be played by all clans, 20 minutes each side. Come playoffs time, the admins again pick the maps to be played and usually picking the "best" ctf maps which are often the symmetrical one's (riyadh, filtration, pgrounds, etc) and turnpike because...well, because everyone fucking loves it.
The 2x10 minutes format is interesting in concept but from my experience with it, it is my opinion that it fails. There's really not enough time to get in the game. If you do go with this format I'd recommend 2x15 minutes. I know, I know, that would make wars last at least 20 minutes longer but the experience would be, again in my opinion, far more enjoyable.
Nexu .|.
The new model presented is far more interesting than the old one. I'd even go further in the changes and basically use STA's competition format which is, in my opinion, still the best format for CTF. For those in here who don't know how STA CTF works, the admins basically choose 1 map a week that is to be played by all clans, 20 minutes each side. Come playoffs time, the admins again pick the maps to be played and usually picking the "best" ctf maps which are often the symmetrical one's (riyadh, filtration, pgrounds, etc) and turnpike because...well, because everyone fucking loves it.
The 2x10 minutes format is interesting in concept but from my experience with it, it is my opinion that it fails. There's really not enough time to get in the game. If you do go with this format I'd recommend 2x15 minutes. I know, I know, that would make wars last at least 20 minutes longer but the experience would be, again in my opinion, far more enjoyable.
Nexu .|.
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