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Nice to see that this is happening!! gg wp
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#92
Pilou42 
Posted 19 August 2013 - 12:15 PM
I don't know if this list is accurate, but I know I don't use cheat and I'm not in this list so it will be hard to defend these people...
Before releasing this list, can you verify if their Auth key has not been stolen ? I mean, is there a link between Auth key and IP address ?
@~SG~ The Doctor: maybe now you will have a decent behavior in game and stop insulting people too strong for you ? :-)
Before releasing this list, can you verify if their Auth key has not been stolen ? I mean, is there a link between Auth key and IP address ?
@~SG~ The Doctor: maybe now you will have a decent behavior in game and stop insulting people too strong for you ? :-)
#93
FS |HSO|RaideR
-
FS inactive member
Company Director & Lead Web Services Developer
Posted 19 August 2013 - 12:24 PM
Auth key stolen... not our problem at all. You can change it, your own personal security is not our issue.
If people "stole" your authkey and cheated on it, that's your responsibility. Just like every other game out there.
If people "stole" your authkey and cheated on it, that's your responsibility. Just like every other game out there.
#95
linxx
Posted 19 August 2013 - 12:37 PM
RaideR, on 19 August 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:
Auth key stolen... not our problem at all. You can change it, your own personal security is not our issue.
If people "stole" your authkey and cheated on it, that's your responsibility. Just like every other game out there.
If people "stole" your authkey and cheated on it, that's your responsibility. Just like every other game out there.
...wow so not event he auth is secure...what's it good for then if it can get stolen and you can get impersonated on a server?
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#96
Pilou42
Posted 19 August 2013 - 12:40 PM
@RaideR: Is it hard to verify the IP address of these reports ?
In your logs, you have a proof with cheats for sure, it's impossible to deny it. But I guess you also have the date/time and IP of culprits. Just make sure it's not really different. Or easier for you, and to be sure, just make public the IP addresses spotted.
Every server admins could do searches for other nicknames (for example in 4.1).
In your logs, you have a proof with cheats for sure, it's impossible to deny it. But I guess you also have the date/time and IP of culprits. Just make sure it's not really different. Or easier for you, and to be sure, just make public the IP addresses spotted.
Every server admins could do searches for other nicknames (for example in 4.1).
#98
KarlMariaSeeberg
Posted 19 August 2013 - 12:44 PM
eya, on 19 August 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:
I honestly don't see the necessity of you knowing. did you ever pester even balance to show you how punkbuster works? the truth is these guys usually tell the community too much, not just plain pr bs like most developers do but real information. you get spoiled and expect to be given information you don't need. you wouldn't be after one of the large game/ac devs this way, would you?
the only game i play is urt...
as one of the previous posters mentioned there is nothing failproof .. and with urt being beta for the last hundred years and fs' track record of buggy releases i think they would do themselves a great favor to back up their accusations/ bans..
trust is a damaged good in urt and its community .. even my sideline perspective allows for that expertise
if the how and why is explained people tend to understand and accept .. so at least in the beginning of this new period of ac supported urt it would be a good idea to have solid proof at hand...
to actually show this thing can be trusted .. additionally there should be a way for those who are charged to have their case examined ..
right now it is nothing more than fs' word against "theirs" ... and words don't outweigh each other .. it's just claiming on both sides.. and currently no one wins...
if i was wrong about this it wouldn't be so damn easy for those on trial to live on in denial
This post has been edited by KarlMariaSeeberg: 19 August 2013 - 12:51 PM
if you don't like uptown, you are basically hating urban terror.
#99
.netJacepriester
community dev
Posted 19 August 2013 - 12:56 PM
I see a trend here in the posts, which is that everyone wants to know more about how AC works, myself included, so I hope I can speak for everyone that's curious about this. I don't want to know the technical aspects. I'm not interested in the fine details. You don't need to give away all the secrets about how it works.
The reason we're asking about this is because this seems like a lot of hand waving and it all showed up out of the blue. We are presented with a list of cheaters, and we're supposed to accept at face value that 1) this list has not been manually edited by anyone, 2) anticheat works correctly and doesn't generate false positives, and 3) the detected cheats were traced to the correct authkeys.
1) Now, I expect to make some FS members mad with #1 in my list because I'm basically saying "I don't trust you". Well, I don't. I don't know most of you - I don't know any of you very well - and the experience I've had with certain FS members (Basilisk) has been criminal, literally. Does someone have a personal grudge, a hidden agenda, that can throw a name in the list arbitrarily? There is literally no proof of cheating besides "we say so". Maybe there is proof that you can see - but we can't, so we're just having to take your word for it.
2) It is a fact that no system is perfect. This doesn't mean that you're generating false positives. Maybe your system works great. But everything makes a mistake eventually, somehow. Generally before you call someone a cheater it's a good idea to have tangible proof (demos!) - evidence that can be reviewed later and that would allow anyone to reach the same conclusion over and over again. I don't know what form of proof you have, but certainly nothing has been presented to the public, so again we're left to take your word for it.
3) I'm going to read a quote right from the front page here. "Auth Down, due to the data theft we can not trust it!". So, if the auth system has been compromised, so much so that it can't be brought back online at present and I quote "we can not trust it", how in the world can you be sure that any of your data on these confirmed-cheater authkeys is valid? Certainly you can't expect the community to be sure, given what we're being told here.
I'll conclude this by saying that I am a server admin and spend lots and lots of time catching cheaters. I collect demos, review them, and make a public post for each and every person banned that includes their player ID, name, aliases if applicable, reason banned, and a demo to provide proof for the community to see. If a demo is not taken, or I've lost it, the ban is lifted. That's accountability. No one has to take my word for it. That's the evidence I'm speaking of that we want to see.
I am absolutely all for anticheat, and Urban Terror desperately needs it if the game is going to survive. Cheating is rampant and ruins it for everyone, and it is becoming all too prominent in the leagues. I hope this message is not taken in a negative way and can be seen as constructive criticism instead. I just want to see more proof of cheating than "because we said so, and we're not wrong" because there are real life people playing this game with their reputations at stake.
The reason we're asking about this is because this seems like a lot of hand waving and it all showed up out of the blue. We are presented with a list of cheaters, and we're supposed to accept at face value that 1) this list has not been manually edited by anyone, 2) anticheat works correctly and doesn't generate false positives, and 3) the detected cheats were traced to the correct authkeys.
1) Now, I expect to make some FS members mad with #1 in my list because I'm basically saying "I don't trust you". Well, I don't. I don't know most of you - I don't know any of you very well - and the experience I've had with certain FS members (Basilisk) has been criminal, literally. Does someone have a personal grudge, a hidden agenda, that can throw a name in the list arbitrarily? There is literally no proof of cheating besides "we say so". Maybe there is proof that you can see - but we can't, so we're just having to take your word for it.
2) It is a fact that no system is perfect. This doesn't mean that you're generating false positives. Maybe your system works great. But everything makes a mistake eventually, somehow. Generally before you call someone a cheater it's a good idea to have tangible proof (demos!) - evidence that can be reviewed later and that would allow anyone to reach the same conclusion over and over again. I don't know what form of proof you have, but certainly nothing has been presented to the public, so again we're left to take your word for it.
3) I'm going to read a quote right from the front page here. "Auth Down, due to the data theft we can not trust it!". So, if the auth system has been compromised, so much so that it can't be brought back online at present and I quote "we can not trust it", how in the world can you be sure that any of your data on these confirmed-cheater authkeys is valid? Certainly you can't expect the community to be sure, given what we're being told here.
I'll conclude this by saying that I am a server admin and spend lots and lots of time catching cheaters. I collect demos, review them, and make a public post for each and every person banned that includes their player ID, name, aliases if applicable, reason banned, and a demo to provide proof for the community to see. If a demo is not taken, or I've lost it, the ban is lifted. That's accountability. No one has to take my word for it. That's the evidence I'm speaking of that we want to see.
I am absolutely all for anticheat, and Urban Terror desperately needs it if the game is going to survive. Cheating is rampant and ruins it for everyone, and it is becoming all too prominent in the leagues. I hope this message is not taken in a negative way and can be seen as constructive criticism instead. I just want to see more proof of cheating than "because we said so, and we're not wrong" because there are real life people playing this game with their reputations at stake.
#100
coreapollo
Posted 19 August 2013 - 01:01 PM
RaideR, on 19 August 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:
Auth key stolen... not our problem at all. You can change it, your own personal security is not our issue.
If people "stole" your authkey and cheated on it, that's your responsibility. Just like every other game out there.
If people "stole" your authkey and cheated on it, that's your responsibility. Just like every other game out there.
Sorry, but the problem is you do. You announced the invasion to the servers.
The responsibility is also yours. How well a person drives his key knowing that the server has protection?
Regards,
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