[psyp.Brainie]

Nitro, on 20 December 2013 - 04:19 AM, said:

We are in the process of answering all the questions in a news post as to why there has been no banlist update. Please be patient.

*cough* We are still waiting for your answer :p *cough*

[Quit #rekt.xesya]

What's the point of discussing permanent bans? There's no such thing. Not a single user was banned for returning while banned and the majority of banned players do have new accounts.

If GUIDs/IPs are getting logged, you can easily think of a system to monitor it or put a FS member in charge of it.

Way easier would be to publish bans more frequent (monthly).

I'm very disappointed what was done or not done with the AC. Can't wait to hear the reasoning behind not releasing a banlist yet. Must be hell of a reason, if you let your community play among cheaters for 4 months, while you have a working AC.

[Facerip]

IP addresses for home connections can be changed by simply requesting a new IP using your router. More importantly it is possible to proxy the connection to a game server, with little to no knowledge of Networking. Additionally, the people who are hacking (if they have any common sense) are not logged into the auth system.

This outlook that ban lists work is naive. Anyone can create a new game account for urban terror with little effort and change their ip address, or just proxy it. Releasing an updated ban list publicly only alerts cheaters that they need to modify their hack to be more undetectable. Keeping ban lists private helps frozen sand develop a more concrete anti cheat system.

The only way to effectively ban someone from an online game is if the game itself is using a paid subscription or license. After being banned, a cheater will be forced to repurchase the game, which in effect provides more revenue to develop a better anti cheat system.

This whole topic is a waste of time.

[sneakers]

I was hoping for a ban list on Christmas. Oh well, hopefully by new year.

[Quit #rekt.xesya]

This is about the 4.2.015 banlist, cheaters were detected, those hacks don't work anymore, thus your whole argumentation is invalid.

[shoushou]

So Facerip, what's the difference between having an AC and keep banlist private, and having no AC ?

You're right at some point. I pointed it out when the first banlist went out : there is absolutely no point to ban some people because the AC caught them : we are playing a free game, it means that when a player is caught, that doesn't matter that much, because that means an account is caught, and not a player. If the guy want to play, he'll just create an other account, or in our case play without account is an other possibility.

But, it's a no sense to not publish any banlist at all. What's the point of having an AC if the only result of it is a admin seeing the list of player and saying "Oh, I worked great, my AC detected 200 cheaters", and do nothing ?

The good solution, as I pointed out the first time, should be to simply publish the banlist and let people (basicly servers and competitions admins) decide to use it or not. At least, we would escape most of the multi-account players.

But don't forget that this AC has not the goal to blovk every cheat possible, the goal of an AC is to detect the maximum of them. It means that the only real objectif of the banlist (as the first one) is to exclude the competition players who use cheats (and ruins the competition). No offense for the no-competitive players, but it doesn't matters that much if a guy is using a cheat on a public server, first because you don't know who the guy is and then because winning is not an objective, and if the server has good and actives admins, the guy is out in a minute. That's why we need regular banlist, to except competitions to be as clean as possible.

The main problem is, because FS didn't communicate about that since the first banlist, we don't know if we have a running AC, how much we can trust it, and so on. When I see a player playing like god during a pcw, I don't have a clue if he is just another cheater as we saw much in 4.1/early 4.2, or just a good player in form with luck. But as we are supposed to have an AC, no competition staff working on demos, at all. So actually, top teams could actually be full of cheaters without nobody expecting it because trusting an AC that we dont' know anything about.

[Facerip]

The anti cheat system is just like an anti virus definition database. When an exploit (in this case a hack for urban terror) is released publicly, it should be almost instantly added to the list of known viruses/exploits/malware etc etc whatever you want to call it. A public ban list is just that, a list of people using hacks that are easily detectable. This will prevent people from going to google and using an aimbot or wallhack they just randomly downloaded. Those type of hacks should be easy for Frozen Sand to identify.

Cheaters who are using hacks that are private, meaning only available to select few individuals are not going to be detected as easily. Its the same concept as an anti virus. If you get malware that is not identified in the virus definitions database within your anti virus, it will go undetected.

When vulnerabilities (or for urban terror, hacks) are discovered for a piece of software, it is usually a good idea to patch the software that has been compromised prior to releasing the fact that it is vulnerable to the public.

Cheaters talk. They share what happens when they use their hacks. If one of them gets caught, the others who are using that same hack stop using it. At this point, whoever is coding their hack modifies it slightly in order to subvert the anti cheat system. This is how cheating has worked in first person shooters since the day I first started playing the original Quake.

It will take frozen sand time to gather all appropriate information regarding detected cheats, in addition it will also be in FS's best interest to withhold ban lists, and release them at a later date. Just as hackers reverse engineer the game, developers need time to reverse engineer the cheats.

Just enable auth on your server, and make sure auth is forced. That alone will get rid of a ton of cheaters.

[psyp.Brainie]

It's not a question of showing a ban list or not. It's a question of they don't ban the cheaters on time.

[Fenix]

Facerip, on 26 December 2013 - 01:20 AM, said:

The anti cheat system is just like an anti virus definition database. When an exploit (in this case a hack for urban terror) is released publicly, it should be almost instantly added to the list of known viruses/exploits/malware etc etc whatever you want to call it. A public ban list is just that, a list of people using hacks that are easily detectable. This will prevent people from going to google and using an aimbot or wallhack they just randomly downloaded. Those type of hacks should be easy for Frozen Sand to identify.

Facerip, on 26 December 2013 - 01:20 AM, said:

Cheaters who are using hacks that are private, meaning only available to select few individuals are not going to be detected as easily. Its the same concept as an anti virus. If you get malware that is not identified in the virus definitions database within your anti virus, it will go undetected.

Sorry but you didn't understand anything related to how the AC works. Every sentence in your reply is wrong. Please search in this forum: anticheat functionality has been explained already somewhere else

[diRf!Nikki]

func·tion·al·i·ty
noun \ˌfəŋ(k)-shə-ˈna-lə-tē\ : the quality of having a practical use : the quality of being functional


&

func·tion·al·i·ty
noun \ˌfəŋ(k)-shə-ˈna-lə-tē\
noun

• 1.the quality of being suited to serve a purpose well; practicality.

It's not serving a purpose well or has any practical use. It's not serving any purpose besides giving you a hidden list and we're all still playing with cheaters. Let's go ahead and throw on the cheaters than are still playing by reregistering as well (at least they have ESL). Maybe we need another explanation of it.

This post has been edited by Nikki: 26 December 2013 - 04:27 AM