[Nounou]

Mr.Yeah, on 29 May 2014 - 12:29 PM, said:

You never cratered in Quake3, did you?

with 10 damages max it's pretty hard to lemming. So that's just something you rarely consider.

I don't remember how higher it was in q3, probably not much.

[lurf]

Completely agree with OP. Have been arguing this point for years now. Urt stands out because of the movements mechanics. Uptown does this best. In fact, Uptown is the only reason I still play urt (just played a game after about 2 years of absence). It would be very cool if this side of the game would be developed further.

I understand there are some technical issues involved with verticality, but I can't imagine they can't be overcome.

[shoushou]

Well, there are some reasons why verticality isn't a good thing in Urban Terror, and the person who did the comparaison with Quake is right :
- Compared to Quake, the damages you take from falling, whether it's because you fail your jump or because you get hitted during it, is way too high to make those huge jumps usefull. While jumping, you have a disadvantage of position.
- Compared to Quake, we have also some dispersion while firing, and this dispersion is much higher when you are jumping. So even if you are the best aimer in the world, you still have a disadvantage because of your jump. And of course, I'm not even talking about the fact it's harder to aim while jumping, because you're moving, usually fast.
- Limited Stamina. Won't explain, it's kinda explicit.
- Harder to go up and down. In Quake, you can use some weapons to jump higher. In UrT, there are no such things. We could use some ladder, but the ladders in actual gameplay are way too slow. Using ladders with same physics as CS one could be a good thing in urt.

[KarlMariaSeeberg]

in my opinion only people capable of jumping from g3 to laundro in and back are qualified to partake in this discussion ...
everybody else is just a walker not having an idea what advantage you actually can gain using jumps.. .

[shoushou]

That topic was serious until then, please stop trolling KMS ...

[KarlMariaSeeberg]

well, the way i see it you were the one who started the trolling:

shoushou, on 10 June 2014 - 06:26 PM, said:

there are some reasons why verticality isn't a good thing in Urban Terror

and to be honest i really think that people who feel the need to question vertical gameplay in urt better know what they are talking about..

but i think it says a lot about the relevance of this very forum that you can complain about vertical gameplay without being laughed at by the majority of the players around here

for the sake of keeping this thread on track:

- the high fall damage isn't a reason to complain, it's a reason to practice more, for those who can jump the fall damage isn't an issue .. "While jumping, you have a disadvantage of position." really, that's like stating that while walking you have the disadvantage of position or while existing having the disadavantage of position .. that's not a point that's simply redundant .

- wow .. movement penalty.. one might think you're trying to convince fs to lose the movement penalty .. (maybe you are a jumper at heart after all), that's what i am talking about when claiming there is a strategic aspect to jumping .. you are discribing a situation where you attack using a high skill jump, that's of course not gonna end well if you are up against amish or any decent shooter .. this might be news to you but if a clan moves on a map looking for their opponent vertical gameplay can of course give you the upper hand... and we are strictly speaking league gameplay here.. on a public server your argument would be invalid anyway (no need to explain this any further)

- you need to learn to except boundaries ..

- cs one?

to those who would pass the acid.. aeh uptown jump test: help me out here..

This post has been edited by KarlMariaSeeberg: 11 June 2014 - 09:10 AM

[FS HappyDay]

KarlMariaSeeberg, on 11 June 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

well, the way i see it you were the one who started the trolling:

I think shoushou's points are perfectly valid and he even explained his position. I see no reason to call that trolling or complaining. After all these forums are here to discuss different opinions.

KarlMariaSeeberg, on 11 June 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

- the high fall damage isn't a reason to complain, it's a reason to practice more, for those who can jump the fall damage isn't an issue .. "While jumping, you have a disadvantage of position." really, that's like stating that while walking you have the disadvantage of position or while existing having the disadavantage of position .. that's not a point that's simply redundant .

The point he was trying to make is that you are very predictable while jumping and you are easy to spot. That's what I would call a disadvantage. And compared to quake, failing a jump is indeed more disastrous, there's no denying that. I think lowering the fall damage and disabling the crippling "when shot in the leg while jumping you drop like a stone"-mechanic, jumping would get more viable on a competitive level than it is now. The question is, is that something we want to see in urt? I think we could try and see.

Quote

movement penalty, stamina:

Same point as above basically. We could adjust the strength of the accuracy penalty while jumping and the stamina to make jumping more or less effective. The question is, what is the "perfect" setting for urt?

[KarlMariaSeeberg]

i don't see valid points here, i see someone who's attacking a core feature of the game but by comparing urt to quake he sounds like someone who wants to unleash urt's jump features .. that's contradictory

i think jumping should not be an easy thing to do, modern shooters rely on the mere time you are willing to spend on the game in order to have access to new features (you even get rewarded for failure), in urt you have to be willing to learn, willing to gain skill, you can play urt for years and still be a walker, like xiuxiu, as far as i am concerned urt's learning curve is one of the reasons it's addictive... and i guess same can be said about quake but i am wandering off the topic

thinking about xiuxiu and alike you have to recognize that it is important to have a walljump limit and to have stamina, everything else would just break the game for those stuck to the ground..

right now urt is a well balanced game: you got your average noob or lazy long time player covered (walking an shooting) and for those willing to learn the depth of the mechanics offers a whole new dimension.

if you changed that you'd break the game for one of those two groups..

i am starting to repeat myself..

in the end as you can see, xiuxiu, i do care about your well-being in-game.. i hope you can appreciate that..

This post has been edited by KarlMariaSeeberg: 11 June 2014 - 01:33 PM

[strayA#Pez]

KarlMariaSeeberg, on 11 June 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

.

i'm sorry but are who are you to be talking down to people? you say others don't have a opinion because they can't do certain jump or something silly; just remember its not just about you around here. A bit of common curtsey towards others opinions would be great. <3

On a happier note i think happyday has hit the nail on the end, at the moment jumping is very predicable and no matter how good you are at a jump a leg shot will instantly impede you; therefore jumping in competitive games where the aim is very good is less viable. Now we could take steps to strengthen the advantage jumping gives you or keep it the same.

This post has been edited by Pez: 11 June 2014 - 02:06 PM

[FS Frankie V]

The key word HD mentioned is “try”.

Overall moving to the Unreal 4 engine offers a lot of opportunities to reset the ideals of map design in favor or the artist/map designer that can not be done under the hard coded mechanics of idtec3 that can at least be tried and tested.

Going back to the OP I read the text as a wish list from a third party map maker looking to have the ability to introduce unique elements in their own maps and since third party maps is allowed are ideals best served by the the community of map makers based on entities from us that will allow such features to be introduced into their own designs with out the need for debate.

UE4 is a win win for everyone as although Frozen Sand should be cautious about what we put into the box as delivered it's a fair request to include tools where a map artist can make a map by design rather than just a bunch of painted boxes.

Adding more functionality is a win for FS as well as anyone who has ever “tried” to make a map will know it takes a lot of time and effort to cook up a map from scratch, and on your own, with no guarantee that anyone would be interested in playing it.

So

It seems reasonable to me that we as the equipment supplier, so to speak, focus on providing useful tools and leave it up to third parties to decided whats best for their design as UE4 already provides volume control of what can or can not occur in a given area.

Now to be clear.

Third party map making is a number one concern as lets be honest that with out them there would be no Urban Terror today or at the least the same “few” maps being played over and over again.