[Lecter2142]

Happyday, on 26 June 2014 - 07:42 AM, said:

I don't know how the ue4 spectator system works, afaik it's not a decision I can make as a mapper (I might be wrong). If I could choose I'd let the spectators move through walls simply because it's more convenient.

Well it's not only about spectator. It's just that in any view you are you can move through walls (/clip and you can move through them, etc).

For your information, it is not convenient in terms of performance. The fact that the map is not closed is one of the reasons why some people are experiencing low FPS and a low game quality.

[FS Markinho]

That's not possible and not a reason to drop frames either

[FS HappyDay]

banksy, on 26 June 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

I hope that you at least make it look accessible other than a by the use of ladders. Like I said in the other thread, he map needs to look real. What building in the real world would you see that is 2-3 stories with the top story only being accessible via a ladder.

I am aware that the room on top of the laundromat doesn't make much sense but it's such a key element of uptown's gameplay, I won't remove it or change it's layout. Nevertheless, I'm trying to make it look as realistic as possible, to make the room look like it has some function or reason to be there. I'm not 100 % sure yet what the real life purpose of such a room might be but we'll see.

banksy, on 26 June 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

Or even, scrap the room, and just have it as roof top obstacles, like vents/electrical boxes, with a pergola over them, with would replace the roof of the third story.

That's an interesting idea but having vents/electrical boxes arranged in exactly that pattern to recreate the current layout seems even more unrealistic to me.

banksy, on 26 June 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

I love uptown, but the map just doesnt make sense.

Agreed :)

banksy, on 26 June 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

Like the elevator shaft. If there were an elevator there, all it does is takes you to an empty room... Who makes buildings that have no purpose.

That's one of the harder buildings to "fix". I'm not sure yet how to give that a purpose but I'll come up with something more or less realistic.

banksy, on 26 June 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

Its things like this that set aside good maps from great maps.

I disagree. If that was true uptown shouldn't be as popular as it is. Gameplay is king, not realism. After all our motto is fun over realism. :)

banksy, on 26 June 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

You never see maps in mass produced games that include random buildings purely for gameplay.

Yeah, not in most of today's shooters because they all go for realism. Quake on the other hand had lots of maps which favored gameplay over realism. Other more "fun" games like Portal and Team Fortress 2 come to mind which have very unrealistic map layouts.

cessquill, on 26 June 2014 - 05:18 PM, said:

my personal icing on the cake is about consistency in design. Across one map and all maps.
You should either be able to climb all drainpipes or none at all. If a block is within grabbing and climbing distance, you should be able to grab it and climb up.

Good point. That's also something I've tried to implement by making it more clear on the buildings which ledges you can only grab and on which ledges you can actually stand by using two clearly different widths of the ledges.

cessquill, on 26 June 2014 - 05:18 PM, said:

To have clipped areas suggests to me that the level could be designed better.

That might be true most of the time but there are always areas you just have to clip off to prevent players from getting there. Take the buildings in uptown for example. I have to add a ceiling at some point and prevent the player from getting on top of the buildings that surround the map even if it would be possible to reach them with some fancy jumps or the help of several team mates. As long as it's pretty clear for the player that he can't get there before he tries the jump it's ok in my opinion. Players do know that there has to be an end to the map at some point.

Lecter2142, on 26 June 2014 - 08:23 PM, said:

Well it's not only about spectator. It's just that in any view you are you can move through walls (/clip and you can move through them, etc).

For your information, it is not convenient in terms of performance. The fact that the map is not closed is one of the reasons why some people are experiencing low FPS and a low game quality.

I don't really know what you are referring to. Are you talking about some console command to let you fly through walls? If so, that won't inherently affect performance at all. Only when you are inside/between the walls larger parts of the map might be rendered which of course leads to poorer performance but that's just the way this stuff works.

[FS BladeKiller]

/clip turns off collision which allows you to go through all brushes and once inside a brush it is invisible as well as any surface that has caulk on it. This could make a map look "open" when it isn't.

Try to remember how old Uptown is. It was built over 10 years ago (probably close to 13). It has been changed many times due to community feedback. If there is a ledge somewhere it is due to a request. The map was built for game play not looks. I always thought that upper room was just an access to the roof terrace. Maybe if it had some tables and chairs on it, it would make more sense.

[Lecter2142]

Happyday, on 26 June 2014 - 11:37 PM, said:

I don't really know what you are referring to. Are you talking about some console command to let you fly through walls? If so, that won't inherently affect performance at all. Only when you are inside/between the walls larger parts of the map might be rendered which of course leads to poorer performance but that's just the way this stuff works.

Okay forget the /clip. My point is the actual maps in UrT are not closed (you can go wherever you want in spectator mode, you can climb up in the sky for as long as you want, you can go through walls, etc. If you want to optimize the game so that it doesn't take too much resources from CPU, close them. Don't allow the spectator view to go wherever possible. Example: Quake Live. The maps are closed, you can't look wherever you want. Result: the game is optimized thus doesn't make some people's computers run out of breath.

[Muffie]

In the world of urbanterror, you can't exactly expect the world to be like ours, we jump and run faster then any game out there.

Yes sometimes that makes for an odd map layout, but if you took cod maps and played urt on them the flow wouldn't work, you'd be getting hung up on everything.

[FS Markinho]

Lecter2142, on 28 June 2014 - 04:07 PM, said:

Okay forget the /clip. My point is the actual maps in UrT are not closed (you can go wherever you want in spectator mode, you can climb up in the sky for as long as you want, you can go through walls, etc. If you want to optimize the game so that it doesn't take too much resources from CPU, close them. Don't allow the spectator view to go wherever possible. Example: Quake Live. The maps are closed, you can't look wherever you want. Result: the game is optimized thus doesn't make some people's computers run out of breath.

For the second time, it's not like that
It's not possible to "close" the maps in the way you want to
Having them "open" does not affect performance, as long as you are inside the playable area the pc will only render what you see; if you are flying outside the map THEN it will render the whole of it, but I doubt you need 125 fps anyway

[CMM|banksy]

I understand Uptown is loved for its gameplay, it's just that if Urban Terror/Frozen Sand want to attract a new audience with a new engine and get with the times, then realism is needed if you want to compete with other games!

I'm not saying, change the layout at all. Keep it the same, just make it real!

Happyday,

New idea for third story! It could possibly be an unfinished level. Say you make the room thats already there, but just give it concrete textured walls, and for the top of the second story where the vents are, replace the vents with pallets of bricks, and make it look like the third story is still being built. And for realism just chuck some plywood around.

[CMM|banksy]

http://graphics8.nyt...SE1-blog480.jpg

http://www.google.co...start=0&ndsp=66

http://www.google.co...start=0&ndsp=65

^ Just that kind of look on the second story roof top, to make it look like the third story will eventually become a larger floor, and possibly serve a purpous
A similar look to CS:GO's Vertigo.

Sorry for double post :/

This post has been edited by banksy: 29 June 2014 - 04:27 AM

[FS BladeKiller]

OK, I get what you mean by "realism" now Banksy. I thought you meant this more as regards to scale which doesn't work well. If all you mean is the type of suggestion you just made about Uptown then we are on the same page and that is what we want to do with HD. We were very limited in what we could do with a map and it was very frustrating with idtech3. UE4 doesn't have those limitations.

Another thing to think about is destroyed buildings instead of under construction. Destroyed by conflict would fit our HD theme well.