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Bellini thoughts? Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   tupp Icon

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 09:11 AM

How many of you guys use the bellini? Pros cons? When would you take this over a different secondary?

I think it should be an instant kill for close ranges. Kevlar or no. Think how a sr8 can kill someone in one shot from across the entire map! With only 5 shots stored it seems only fair to have a 1 hit kill. Vs any other gun, having to hit 2 shots in a row is just too much. I don't think there's really any reason to use this gun while the desert eagle is around.

Speaking of which, isn't the desert eagle due for a nerf? I'd like to see more variety of guns used, but for pistols, DE is just so good. I've used the magnum a lot though, and it seems to have potential!

This post has been edited by tupp: 07 April 2017 - 05:56 AM


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Posted 26 March 2017 - 01:30 PM

View Posttupp, on 26 March 2017 - 09:11 AM, said:

I think it should be an instant kill for close ranges. Kevlar or no. Think how a sr8 can kill someone in one shot from across the entire map! With only 5 shots stored it seems only fair to have a 1 hit kill. Vs any other gun, having to hit 2 shots in a row is just too much. I don't think there's really any reason to use this gun while the desert eagle is around.


LOL I've never thought of the SR8 as a shotgun before, but it kind of is if you no-scope/quickscope with it.

1hit kill with shotgun seems legit, but I would think it would need to involve the head...

I've noticed that in CS, more dmg is taken to the torso than to the chest. Kind of disturbing to imagine the difference, but it seems to create more reason to view two options when engaging an opponent: to aim high or low

High: Chance for faster defeat, tougher odds (which can be compensated for by skill, but not always and especially if the opponent is quick (a match for you) and/or skilled enough to be aware of where you're aiming and to effectively strafe/dodge while engaged)

Low: Risky, especially if opponent goes high and is successful but potentially faster and if unsuccessful, take away movement (if legs are hit) which means follow-up by a teammate is more likely to be a low-risk success and a stepping-stone to the following frag.

View Posttupp, on 26 March 2017 - 09:11 AM, said:

Speaking of which, isn't the desert eagle due for a nerf? I'd like to see more variety of guns used, but for pistols, DE is just so good.

Well, 7 bullets per clip means it can't always be used confidently for entry fragging... So for instance, if you're rushing pillars to parking lot, while the DE can dispatch one opponent more quickly than the LR, you may be hard-pressed to get another frag unless you have a plan to take cover and reload. Weapon-switch is also a factor and the time cost to switch or reload somewhat negates the potential for a damage/firerate advantage (less time req. to frag). But still, slower than the SR8.

I think it is a situational weapon due to the sufficient accuracy and fire-rate of rifles which seems to make the LR and M4 a safer and more reliable choice (unless the player is highly skilled and comfortable/confident with DE). Especially considering you need 3 Kevlar hits or 2 (1?) and a headshot... which makes it only slightly better than the LR and it requires skill to kev/helm someone in a faster pace game confiendetly and consistently... espcially at higher levels of play.

It may look funny sometimes when a skilled player can use it to 'pick' and get long-distance frags when he/she is sufficiently covered but yea I don't think it's OP or blatantly something which cries out to be changed.

If anything, I would argue for higher aim-punch for SR8, high-powered pistols and especially the shotgun... also maybe healing takes longer on arms when hit by shotgun?

Actually, more complicated medicing would be really neat, espcially if it took longer to med based on the nature of the 'wound'... so the medic would need to 'diagnose' and learn the timings. Also maybe it could cost stamina or something.

Anyway, my point is simply that often skill and awareness makes any imbalance (in UrT at least) basically irrelevant to factors which determine who 'gets the jump' and aims more precisely and finishes more proficiently. Also, that we can perhaps discuss making certain aspects of the game more complex...but only if we see an increase in 'solid' play first.

This post has been edited by Vortex2: 26 March 2017 - 09:51 PM


#3 User is offline   tupp Icon

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 08:13 AM

View PostVortex2, on 26 March 2017 - 01:30 PM, said:



1hit kill with shotgun seems legit, but I would think it would need to involve the head...



Idk about anyone else, but do people just forget that the sr8 can 1 hit kill someone from across the map? I think if you can get close enough to someone with the bellini you should be rewarded with a 1 hit kill opportunity, because unlike the SPAS which pushes people around, and is super easy to aim, the bellini is all about risky close range damage. If it did a 1 hit kill through kevlar, I still believe people would often choose ump or mp5 over it just due to it's risky nature.


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Posted 27 March 2017 - 04:38 PM

View Posttupp, on 27 March 2017 - 08:13 AM, said:

Idk about anyone else, but do people just forget that the sr8 can 1 hit kill someone from across the map? I think if you can get close enough to someone with the bellini you should be rewarded with a 1 hit kill opportunity, because unlike the SPAS which pushes people around, and is super easy to aim, the bellini is all about risky close range damage. If it did a 1 hit kill through kevlar, I still believe people would often choose ump or mp5 over it just due to it's risky nature.


I think I agree, but the distance/spread would have to be such that a rifler wouldn't be constantly questioning his/her weapon choice when he/she gets 1shotted.

My only concern is there is no real counter to it, and someone who is rushing (which I want to see more of), is likely to get owned... meaning greater incentive for riflers to stand their ground, possibly resulting in more stand-offs and less co-ordinated rush tactics being the norm.

I guess we'all have to see how it works out in real-time gameplay.

Edit: I suppose HE grenades could be a way to help flush out/clear shotgunners if this became a part of the game, as a first nade could push the player back and a second (well-timed) nade could be faster than the person with the shotgun reacting. (I'm picturing rushing narrow, and the hallway to water-tank on Tohunga, but I'm sure there are more applications, eg. Shotgun-Flag-Defender)

This post has been edited by Vortex2: 27 March 2017 - 04:47 PM


#6 User is offline   Valour Icon

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 10:46 PM

I'm not sure we're thinking in terms of real game-physics and what actually happens...

First, SR8 frags are not always easy and it's often a role in competitive play where most of the time, I imagine even skilled SR8ers are thinking to themselves, "Honestly, I'd rather be rifling right now." while contemplating how viable it really is and whether anyone is truly skilled enough to wield the SR8 successfully in high-pressure matches (and be consistent). With practice and preparation comes greater results, but the fact remains: it takes discipline, and it's not an easy thing to do (competitively).

Second, given the nature of the weapon, the shot-gun (not the 1-shot gun), perhaps the proper way to go about all of this is to look at it realistically both in terms of IRL and in-game physics. I contend that given the low-skill requirement for the use of a shotgun, allowing it to offer a reliable 2-shot kill is more than reasonable.

I'm not sure how the physics of a shotgun truly works, because I haven't done my research, but I understand it shoots a spray of pellets or something which is effectively wide enough that you would have to be VERY close for it not to be a 50/50 situation against a player who is fast and able to dodge at least half the damage.

I can see a high chest/headshot being a 1shot, but not really anything else... but again, 2shots (given fire-rate) could be a nice compromise and make it an attractive option for 'rolling' with teammates and clearing areas like bathroom on Turnpike with a confident advantage.

We'll see?

This post has been edited by Valour: 28 March 2017 - 02:34 AM


#7 User is offline   tupp Icon

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 05:55 AM

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I think I agree, but the distance/spread would have to be such that a rifler wouldn't be constantly questioning his/her weapon choice when he/she gets 1shotted.


The shotguns do less damage the farther away the opponent is. SPAS just has a spread and benelli does less damage after a certain distance (how far?)

If you're trying to use benelli for long range combat, you're doing it wrong because you'll sooner hit 3/4 shots with a normal gun than with your slug.


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I contend that given the low-skill requirement for the use of a shotgun, allowing it to offer a reliable 2-shot kill is more than reasonable.


I think benelli (wow I've been reading it wrong for so long) is not at all a "low skill" weapon. It requires very good aim to actually get kills with it, because it has a very low rate of fire and clip size.

You can get maybe 2 shots off before you die, and these both need to be direct hits. With any other secondary, you can spray and do smaller but consistent damage, with the additional bonus of a lot of bleed points.

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I understand it shoots a spray of pellets or something


SPAS shoots a spray of pellets and does lots of small pieces of damage. A direct hit with the SPAS is comparable to a direct hit with a benelli, but SPAS pushes people around, and if you miss a bit, you still do a bit of damage.

Benelli shoots a fat slug at the enemy and if it hits, it should tear a hole through them! Spas and benelli are very different weapons. If you can get close to someone with spas, it seems fair that at least 2 direct shots is required for a kill because it is a lot more forgiving.

With benelli, if you hit them point blank with a slug, no amount of kevlar should stop them from dying since it's a lot more difficult to wield than the SPAS >:)

Quote

My only concern is there is no real counter to it, and someone who is rushing (which I want to see more of), is likely to get owned... meaning greater incentive for riflers to stand their ground, possibly resulting in more stand-offs and less co-ordinated rush tactics being the norm.


I mean, if you rush in on anyone, you're putting yourself at a disadvantage a lot of the time, so it won't matter if your opponent has a 1 hit kill weapon or a normal gun. No doubt, a normal rifle should be better than a shotgun in 90% of situations, but in tight hallways, or sharp corners, having the ability to "outgun" a rifle at close quarters would be nice.

Right now, the best close range weapons, are still just lr/m4/DE but there should be some more interesting options when you want to get close and personal.

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