[Oswald (old)]

Quote

well' date=' there are problems with performance on the rooftops...people can ignore it all they want....[/quote']

I never had the FPS bug in sliema

Regardless, it is a fact and there is a drop due to how it was created and not being able to VIS the map...

[L3mMinG (old)]

Gr4v3, your pc is too uberl33t man

[L3mMinG (old)]

well it all has to do with visblocks that help the bsp engine to determine which areas of the map can't be seen from where. If no visblock is present and the bsp compiler doesn't do a good job, the fps drop seriously...

[Oswald (old)]

It also has to do with mappers not knowing how to get creative and block that vis, even if it requires a layout or design change on the map.

[Shminkyboy]

[quote name='"swifty"]lately I've noticed some maps come out that absolutely suck for fps given their relative simplicity. ut_milano springs to mind' date=' and streetfight. these are both pretty damn basic maps but their fps is horrible. it's amazing to me how maps like those two could have far worse fps than, say, rommel.[/quote']

[quote name='"Oswald"]It also has to do with mappers not knowing how to get creative and block that vis' date=' even if it requires a layout or design change on the map.[/quote']



Someone say roof play?

Oswald is correct.

Actually with proper vis'ing and a fair understanding of how the engine "sees things" you can make a pretty good sized Open Air ™ Map. It takes a 'lil longer and takes a bit more planning is all.

There's decent sized 'open' maps out there, just not many...

[mrp (old)]

for rooftop maps a knowledge of hinting is far more valueable than a knowledge of vis blocking, unless u want all the thin walls of your many buildings to act as structural ( i wouldn't that would b quite messy ) basically because if u can see over the entiremap at any given point .. likely thing is that the whole map will be drawn, which is why maps such as sliema, which have high detail and open rooftops leads to poor performance on lower end machines..

anyhow slightly OT , i agree with ( bludshot i think it was ) the penalties for moving across vertical spaces if you slip up tend to disuade an amount of gamers that rooftops are worth anything but to camp your sniper with.

There are also faults with rooftops whos only access is a ladder, these areas tend to b very hard to take away from a good sniper. ( i think rommel is a good example of more than one way to gain access to a rooftop altho there is one roof near the bridge which is pretty easy to defend (camp) however as for a good ts map? i wouldnt agree .. the chokepoints at pernod fils with the tiny door, and the open spaces to the bridge make rushing quite hard if u dont have indepth knowledge of how to move in urt ).

There was a tutorial by sweetnutz ( i think, although maybe it was sum1 else ) i remember reading which listed what he thought to b essentials to make a map popular. 1. Verticality, However this doesnt mean having 1 level at the ground and 1 in the sky. Market in casa is a good example of what is good verticality and leads to interesting gameplay.. there are a multitude of levels in that area not to mention sloped terrain. 2. Connectivity - Having more than 1 entrance or exit to any area .. the usual recommendation is 3 or 4 exits to any area giving the gamer more options in trying to outwit his opponent.

There were other things , but i just wanted to point out that a good map isn't just solely a matter or 2d vs 3d , there are many more things which a mapper ( and gamer if they r playtesting ) must think about in order for their maps to play well. And if you consider the maps which aren't casa or turnpike, then perhaps you may understand why they are underplayed, other than an issue of how large is the difference in levels? .

Gamers much prefer a smooth-flowing map. B it vertical or no.

[Shminkyboy]

*cough* Hinting IS vis'ing *cough*

You are manipulating the vis manually in a sense with hints.

AFAIK Sliema simply wasn't hinted at all, I seem to recall the maker of it stating this.

Thin Walls have nothing to do with anything, as long as it's structural and properly vis'ed (hinted) it will block vis fine.

Actually most 'thin walled structures' fail to block vis for other reasons, such as the mapper failing to realise that any openings into this structure (doors, windows) MUST be 'protected openings' (you have to set doorways/windows/hallways up so that you cannot see through to the other side of the structure, and also the inside of this structure must be hinted in and of itself for this to work in a lot of cases). Basically, a brush blocks no vis if it has a hole in it, but you can get around that

A 2d map is a room with rooms in it connected by hallways.

A 3d map is just a taller room with rooms stacked vertically, "outside areas" are just big hallways. Think if it that way and it becomes easier to "hint the rooftops".

Hinting and vis-blocking go hand in hand... One without the other is only half of the pie, they are both equally important, espesially in maps wth a lot going on, and ESPESIALLY with maps that have lots of roof play. Sadly, many mappers spend the least amount of time and effort to understand/use it fully compared to the other aspects of mapping, and it amounts to maps with horrible fps.