[+OC+CRIS]

mitsubishi, on 25 November 2010 - 05:02 AM, said:

^ ye, realism isn't the strongest point of this game.



The OP doesn't know something important. Nades aren't overpowered. SR8 was a lot for many setups and the team added that feature [normal delay] among others to balance it[*]. Another quirk is that to balance it they made it so that it unscopes after it's been hit for more than an amount of damage. That doesn't happen always. It might be an indirect quirk meaning it happens because of network latencies (e.g. you may sr8 shoot but network lag didn't reach your client to unscope or so, which might be remedied by registering the hit/unscope later).


[*] A common way to kill a [good] sniper is to wait for his 'delay'.

Nades are overpowered imo. You simply have to notice they are used in EVERY(playable) game mode and are largely favored over laser. No one uses sniper in ctf and u never see a team with only sr8, but u see lots of teams with only automatics or with majority automatics.

Why nades are overpowered
1- You can kill several enemies with "1 ammo", not only 1 like with sr8.
2- You can prevent people entering a area without exposing yourself, unlike the sr8.
3- You can throw nades over obstacles in a arc, you cannot curve bullets with sr8, would be nice feature :P.
4-With the exploit u have 2 infinite supplies of nades and u only need to waste one of those when u see the enemy in a good spot to be naded,which means a kill, you cannot reuse a bullet with sr8 in case u regret using it.
5- You can throw a nade with the objective of trying to hear if enemy is there, you cannot do that with sr8, cause u cannot curve bullets.
6-You can use 2 in quick succession, you cannot shoot twice in quick succession with sr8.
7-You can lure a enemy into a area and "bake" a nade for him in your trail and then use a auto, so u are able to damage him with nade and auto at same time, you cannot damage someone with sr8 and auto at same time.
etc
These are only the ones i thought about, there are probably many more.

The main weakness of sr8 that people forget to mention is that when u drop sr8 u will be having a SUB-auto or a Pistol, which is nowhere as good as a MAIN-auto.

What can be done is make weapon change and drop animation take longer.

"[*] A common way to kill a [good] sniper is to wait for his 'delay'."

That won't be needed anymore cause of flash grenades, throw a flash at right moment sniper is screwed.

[Banned Avocadoo]

cris, on 24 November 2010 - 01:23 PM, said:

It's not exploit. It's normal. Nade's is a bug.

I love this guy
F1 for fix nade exploit.

[Muffie]

uhm, i think it's a good idea that we can nade cancel, wouldn't u want to in real life?
and if ppl complain about the sr8 "exploit" possibly add a weapon switch delay when dropping your weapons.

but shit, a pro sniper would do the same thing irl.

ex:
Sniper sniping in a tower
Guy sneaks up behind
sniper drops his rifle spins around and turns michael myers into swiss cheese.



THEY AREN'T EXPLOITS, THERE FEATURES, BE PRO, SO THEREFORE, YOU ARE PRO.

[GlaD-Solitary]

I did mention this to the dev team, will have to see if they take action on it or not.

Fact is it really is a bug. Prior to 4.x you never could cancel grenades, once you pulled the pin you were committed to the grenade. When 4.x came out this little nade bug became very apparent and open to alot of players, and due to the nature/timeframe of UrT releases it simply wasn't ever fixed at which point people have already began taking advantage of this exploit.

The nade exploit is essentially the same thing as the sr8 drop exploit in the sense that it does not fall within the intentions of the developers. Sadly due to the fact alot of the 4.x noobs (and even old schoolers) are now accustomed to the nade canceling it may not even be fixed.

I do hope the development team fixes this bug as it adds more depth to the game and doesn't allow you to prime nades without releasing them until your heart is content.

edit: the sr8 drop exploit has been banned from North American competition for some time, not sure about EU or SA. The nade exploit would most likely also have had been banned had it not been so common that it is almost involuntary where as the Sr8 drop requires a decisive action (hitting drop bind)

This post has been edited by Solitary: 25 November 2010 - 09:29 PM

[|it|Nexu]

cris, on 25 November 2010 - 10:09 AM, said:

Why nades are overpowered
1- You can kill several enemies with "1 ammo", not only 1 like with sr8.
2- You can prevent people entering a area without exposing yourself, unlike the sr8.
3- You can throw nades over obstacles in a arc, you cannot curve bullets with sr8, would be nice feature :P.
4-With the exploit u have 2 infinite supplies of nades and u only need to waste one of those when u see the enemy in a good spot to be naded,which means a kill, you cannot reuse a bullet with sr8 in case u regret using it.
5- You can throw a nade with the objective of trying to hear if enemy is there, you cannot do that with sr8, cause u cannot curve bullets.
6-You can use 2 in quick succession, you cannot shoot twice in quick succession with sr8.
7-You can lure a enemy into a area and "bake" a nade for him in your trail and then use a auto, so u are able to damage him with nade and auto at same time, you cannot damage someone with sr8 and auto at same time.
etc
These are only the ones i thought about, there are probably many more.

Not to offend you, but it's silly to compare a splash damage type of weapon with a hit scan weapon.

[Kolossus]

Indeed. What's the point of comparing such different weapons? It's normal that an exploding weapon will kill more than just one person, I don't see the "unbalancing factor" :|

[mitsubishi]

Solitary, on 25 November 2010 - 09:25 PM, said:

Prior to 4.x you never could cancel grenades

You're right (even though I spent 600 years on 3.7 I didn't remember that, I had to load q3ut3 and see it for myself). I was drawn by the fact the last time we discussed it nobody objected to the feature. While it could be on purpose, it has a high probability it's initially a bug since it doesn't conform to reality.

However, what sets it apart from sr8 is that sr8 was recently discussed as very overpowered and the unscope-when-hit feature was added for that purpose (even if it doesn't work properly always, but anyway). I wonder if nades were built upon a bug recently for their balance or if it was done on purpose.

[GlaD-Solitary]

It was a bug since with versions prior to 4.x when you dropped nades they would remain armed 100% of the time resulting in explosions. Also when you armed a nade and tried to switch weapons prior to 4.x the nade would fall to the ground.

I'm sure there were people who objected, thing is the devteam previously had problems getting the fixes / releases out there (hopefully UrT:HD will usher in a new era) just look at the duplicate brush @ uptown skylight besides the ladder. All they needed was deleting one of the duplicate brushes a recompile and done.

This post has been edited by Solitary: 25 November 2010 - 10:39 PM

[Green Viking]

Solitary, on 25 November 2010 - 09:25 PM, said:

I do hope the development team fixes this bug as it adds more depth to the game and doesn't allow you to prime nades without releasing them until your heart is content.

how does that add more depth to the game?

[GlaD-Solitary]

It reintroduces a handicap to grenades forcing players to think out their actions more instead of relying on a simple weapon switch. Raises the skill ceiling on the game due to the fact grenades will require slightly more skill. It is argued that with the release of 4.x the skill ceiling dropped significantly in comparisons to previous versions.