QA member
The ioquake version of this game is dead, and will probably never live again. FS is trying to release the assets it already created like 3 years ago, and give everything they have developed over the years to the community to do with as they wish on their servers.
If you hate all the new weapons, thats fine. Ban them on your server with the weapons cvar. You hate servers more than 24 slots, dont fkn play on those servers. Dont like the way tac goggles work? ban them on your server. Do whatever you think is best on your server, and dont complain when everyone has a different Idea of how UrT should be played than you do.
UrT 4.x will not have any more major updates, or any more major new code. You are going to have to deal with that. They might release a few bug fixes and MAYBE a balance patch, but overall this version of UrT is done. Thanks for playing. If you hate what it has become, go develop your own game. Sorry to be blunt, but raging at the devs is going to get you nowhere whether your problems with the way things have played out are correct or not. Most of the recent stuff has all been requested by the community at one point or another. FS has actually been listening to the users and really trying to make UrT the game that the community wanted, even if there were some major fiascos along the way.
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[RC] UrT 4.3 Release Candidate 4
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#52
Magister 
Posted 22 June 2016 - 03:43 AM
KroniK, on 21 June 2016 - 10:21 PM, said:
FS is trying to release the assets it already created like 3 years ago, and give everything they have developed over the years to the community to do with as they wish on their servers.
Is this really true? What does this mean exactly? Does FS want to comment?
#53
=SC=ringel
Posted 22 June 2016 - 07:54 AM
When Barbatos was like:
The community was like: OMG we finally will be heard and our arguments will be considered.
KroniK - omg they are actually doing it. better tell them to **** off and make their own game.
Love it.
Barbatos, on 19 June 2016 - 09:47 AM, said:
Please feel free to create a thread explaining your view on the weapon balance so this can be looked into before the release.
The community was like: OMG we finally will be heard and our arguments will be considered.
Makeurtgreatagain, on 21 June 2016 - 05:34 AM, said:
benelli is pointless because its near unusable because the projectile size is so small and by the time you line up two shots you are dead
the FR-1 less damage and a slightly slower cycle time
the magnum has so much re-coil that it loses every engagement and it makes no sense for it to be less powerful then a .50AE in the desert eagle
...
the FR-1 less damage and a slightly slower cycle time
the magnum has so much re-coil that it loses every engagement and it makes no sense for it to be less powerful then a .50AE in the desert eagle
...
ringel, on 21 June 2016 - 10:14 AM, said:
...
The only reasonable conclusion is: We don't need more modes and weapons, we need more viable possibilities to play within the modes we have and with the weapons / gears we got!
The only reasonable conclusion is: We don't need more modes and weapons, we need more viable possibilities to play within the modes we have and with the weapons / gears we got!
Iye, on 21 June 2016 - 11:12 AM, said:
Now. lets make some multiple pages long posts. besides those should probably go into a different section and thread, but hey.
...
...
KroniK - omg they are actually doing it. better tell them to **** off and make their own game.
KroniK, on 21 June 2016 - 10:21 PM, said:
They might release a few bug fixes and MAYBE a balance patch, but overall this version of UrT is done. Thanks for playing. If you hate what it has become, go develop your own game.
Love it.
This post has been edited by ringel: 22 June 2016 - 07:55 AM
#54
KroniK
Posted 22 June 2016 - 05:14 PM
All I'm saying is that they have listened to this community for YEARS. Guess what... People kept asking for more weapons and different game modes. So that is what we have now.
When I said "Give over to the community" I didn't mean open source or anything, just that they had promised new weapons and gamemodes and such for many years, so they have wanted to make good on that and actually release the new weapons and gamemodes and such that they have had at 90% working for the last 3 years or whatever, again because people kept asking for them.
You can go back and look at the forums if you want. People did want those things, as well as many of the things you mentioned. However some of the stuff the community has asked for is beyond what is reasonable to put time behind while they are trying to make HD.
Barbatos specifically asked for weapon balance issues. Iye and ringal were making nice points, but then Makeurtgreatagain decided to, instead of discuss the weapon balance, ask for FS to roll back all the work that was done on 4.3 and instead implement a bunch of changes which have not been mentioned or asked for throughout the rest of all of the 4.3 threads. Telling FS "You are doing everything wrong, we never asked for your effort on weapons and gamemodes" is a played out Insult to the FS devs, who I'm sure have heard it thousands of times, but its still just plain mean and not helping the conversation. Guess what, we are getting new weapons and some new game modes. Rather than spend an entire post ranting about how awful the game is with these new items, why don't you discuss how to make them better like Iye and ringal.
My post before this was directed solely at makeurtgreatagain. Clearly this guy is too much of a coward to post this crap on his real account, so he has to make an alt to yell at the devs. Sure you can say "We have been asking for this or that for the past 10 years." But maybe an account that is older than 3 days would add a bit to your credibility. Not to mention your false sense of nostalgia for "the old days" which were actually measurably worse than the current versions of UrT. Nearly every iteration has made this game better, (except for the whole 4.2 early days). Yes UrT was great back in the day, but that was because of a playerbase, not so much because of any particular set of features.
/rant
When I said "Give over to the community" I didn't mean open source or anything, just that they had promised new weapons and gamemodes and such for many years, so they have wanted to make good on that and actually release the new weapons and gamemodes and such that they have had at 90% working for the last 3 years or whatever, again because people kept asking for them.
You can go back and look at the forums if you want. People did want those things, as well as many of the things you mentioned. However some of the stuff the community has asked for is beyond what is reasonable to put time behind while they are trying to make HD.
Quote
omg they are actually doing it. better tell them to **** off and make their own game.
Barbatos specifically asked for weapon balance issues. Iye and ringal were making nice points, but then Makeurtgreatagain decided to, instead of discuss the weapon balance, ask for FS to roll back all the work that was done on 4.3 and instead implement a bunch of changes which have not been mentioned or asked for throughout the rest of all of the 4.3 threads. Telling FS "You are doing everything wrong, we never asked for your effort on weapons and gamemodes" is a played out Insult to the FS devs, who I'm sure have heard it thousands of times, but its still just plain mean and not helping the conversation. Guess what, we are getting new weapons and some new game modes. Rather than spend an entire post ranting about how awful the game is with these new items, why don't you discuss how to make them better like Iye and ringal.
My post before this was directed solely at makeurtgreatagain. Clearly this guy is too much of a coward to post this crap on his real account, so he has to make an alt to yell at the devs. Sure you can say "We have been asking for this or that for the past 10 years." But maybe an account that is older than 3 days would add a bit to your credibility. Not to mention your false sense of nostalgia for "the old days" which were actually measurably worse than the current versions of UrT. Nearly every iteration has made this game better, (except for the whole 4.2 early days). Yes UrT was great back in the day, but that was because of a playerbase, not so much because of any particular set of features.
/rant
#55
FS Frankie V
-
FS chief admin
Assets Manager & Lead Animator
- Account: frankiev
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Country:
- Joined: 10-January 10
- Posts: 2,910
Posted 22 June 2016 - 10:39 PM
KroniK, on 22 June 2016 - 05:14 PM, said:
All I'm saying is that they have listened to this community for YEARS. Guess what... People kept asking for more weapons and different game modes. So that is what we have now.
When I said "Give over to the community" I didn't mean open source or anything, just that they had promised new weapons and gamemodes and such for many years, so they have wanted to make good on that and actually release the new weapons and gamemodes and such that they have had at 90% working for the last 3 years or whatever, again because people kept asking for them.
You can go back and look at the forums if you want. People did want those things, as well as many of the things you mentioned. However some of the stuff the community has asked for is beyond what is reasonable to put time behind while they are trying to make HD.
Barbatos specifically asked for weapon balance issues. Iye and ringal were making nice points, but then Makeurtgreatagain decided to, instead of discuss the weapon balance, ask for FS to roll back all the work that was done on 4.3 and instead implement a bunch of changes which have not been mentioned or asked for throughout the rest of all of the 4.3 threads. Telling FS "You are doing everything wrong, we never asked for your effort on weapons and gamemodes" is a played out Insult to the FS devs, who I'm sure have heard it thousands of times, but its still just plain mean and not helping the conversation. Guess what, we are getting new weapons and some new game modes. Rather than spend an entire post ranting about how awful the game is with these new items, why don't you discuss how to make them better like Iye and ringal.
My post before this was directed solely at makeurtgreatagain. Clearly this guy is too much of a coward to post this crap on his real account, so he has to make an alt to yell at the devs. Sure you can say "We have been asking for this or that for the past 10 years." But maybe an account that is older than 3 days would add a bit to your credibility. Not to mention your false sense of nostalgia for "the old days" which were actually measurably worse than the current versions of UrT. Nearly every iteration has made this game better, (except for the whole 4.2 early days). Yes UrT was great back in the day, but that was because of a playerbase, not so much because of any particular set of features.
/rant
When I said "Give over to the community" I didn't mean open source or anything, just that they had promised new weapons and gamemodes and such for many years, so they have wanted to make good on that and actually release the new weapons and gamemodes and such that they have had at 90% working for the last 3 years or whatever, again because people kept asking for them.
You can go back and look at the forums if you want. People did want those things, as well as many of the things you mentioned. However some of the stuff the community has asked for is beyond what is reasonable to put time behind while they are trying to make HD.
Barbatos specifically asked for weapon balance issues. Iye and ringal were making nice points, but then Makeurtgreatagain decided to, instead of discuss the weapon balance, ask for FS to roll back all the work that was done on 4.3 and instead implement a bunch of changes which have not been mentioned or asked for throughout the rest of all of the 4.3 threads. Telling FS "You are doing everything wrong, we never asked for your effort on weapons and gamemodes" is a played out Insult to the FS devs, who I'm sure have heard it thousands of times, but its still just plain mean and not helping the conversation. Guess what, we are getting new weapons and some new game modes. Rather than spend an entire post ranting about how awful the game is with these new items, why don't you discuss how to make them better like Iye and ringal.
My post before this was directed solely at makeurtgreatagain. Clearly this guy is too much of a coward to post this crap on his real account, so he has to make an alt to yell at the devs. Sure you can say "We have been asking for this or that for the past 10 years." But maybe an account that is older than 3 days would add a bit to your credibility. Not to mention your false sense of nostalgia for "the old days" which were actually measurably worse than the current versions of UrT. Nearly every iteration has made this game better, (except for the whole 4.2 early days). Yes UrT was great back in the day, but that was because of a playerbase, not so much because of any particular set of features.
/rant
Normally I do not quote a post in it's entirety but your comments hits the nail right on the head as far as the decisions we make as to the things that we have added over time as to requests by the community in general as to improvements.
Comments in general.
It should be understood that FS is not a typical games development company driven by profit but rather a group of individuals who freely give of their time to do what's necessary to keep the game going so it makes the job easier to just do what the community suggested as a whole rather then put the effort into key game development that may or may not be of benefit.
The result though is always the same. If someone believes that the additions or changes is of little benefit will post 100% of the time their opinion where those that don't have a complaint one way or another will not post so as far as balance goes then additions are typically 50-50 which by definition defines balance as far as to what has to be changed.
That's not to say FS will not change something or takes something out if a case is made but the back blow is the other half that was happy will now feel the need to make their opinions known and once again a 50-50 split that by leaving things alone would allow time to see if it works out on it's own. Power sliding for example seems everyone hated it at first until players figured out how to integrate into their playing style and if we took it out now there would be hell to pay.
The one consideration above all else is not to add features or change key game mechanics that are forced on the player but rater adds options to the player based on their decision to add an addition to their personal load out and/or playing style so a new weapon addition is up to the player to decided if it's a valued addition where personally I hate the HK69 playing against someone who has figure out to how use it (me looks sideways at Lavant).
Game type additions is more of a case that the programmer/coder wanted to do the game type and generally not a planed addition to the game but what is lacking in UrT is the single player game types necessary to attract new players to the game. With 4.2 still being a mod of the game Quake 3 Urban Terror befitted from a constant flow of new players making their way into our community just as Rocket Arena and InstaGib, as well as 3Frags CTF, and by going stand alone UrT has lost the benefit of players looking for a differ taste to Q3 as to their preference of the single player game type.
Will 4.3 be the last release.
Simple answerer.
No
Long answer.
Once again Frozen Sand is a collective of skilled volunteers who's only long term planning is to keep the old girl going for another year and 4.2 was planed as a final release and as a maintenance build until Barbie showed up and rebooted a ground up rebuild which 4.1 was in need of.
So based on past trends as long as there is someone willing to volunteer their time and effort freely FS will support their effort by not saying no to free work. ;)
doing "stuff" with dead things.
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#56
Makeurtgreatagain
Posted 23 June 2016 - 12:33 AM
KroniK, on 22 June 2016 - 05:14 PM, said:
All I'm saying is that they have listened to this community for YEARS. Guess what... People kept asking for more weapons and different game modes. So that is what we have now.
When I said "Give over to the community" I didn't mean open source or anything, just that they had promised new weapons and gamemodes and such for many years, so they have wanted to make good on that and actually release the new weapons and gamemodes and such that they have had at 90% working for the last 3 years or whatever, again because people kept asking for them.
You can go back and look at the forums if you want. People did want those things, as well as many of the things you mentioned. However some of the stuff the community has asked for is beyond what is reasonable to put time behind while they are trying to make HD.
Barbatos specifically asked for weapon balance issues. Iye and ringal were making nice points, but then Makeurtgreatagain decided to, instead of discuss the weapon balance, ask for FS to roll back all the work that was done on 4.3 and instead implement a bunch of changes which have not been mentioned or asked for throughout the rest of all of the 4.3 threads. Telling FS "You are doing everything wrong, we never asked for your effort on weapons and gamemodes" is a played out Insult to the FS devs, who I'm sure have heard it thousands of times, but its still just plain mean and not helping the conversation. Guess what, we are getting new weapons and some new game modes. Rather than spend an entire post ranting about how awful the game is with these new items, why don't you discuss how to make them better like Iye and ringal.
My post before this was directed solely at makeurtgreatagain. Clearly this guy is too much of a coward to post this crap on his real account, so he has to make an alt to yell at the devs. Sure you can say "We have been asking for this or that for the past 10 years." But maybe an account that is older than 3 days would add a bit to your credibility. Not to mention your false sense of nostalgia for "the old days" which were actually measurably worse than the current versions of UrT. Nearly every iteration has made this game better, (except for the whole 4.2 early days). Yes UrT was great back in the day, but that was because of a playerbase, not so much because of any particular set of features.
/rant
When I said "Give over to the community" I didn't mean open source or anything, just that they had promised new weapons and gamemodes and such for many years, so they have wanted to make good on that and actually release the new weapons and gamemodes and such that they have had at 90% working for the last 3 years or whatever, again because people kept asking for them.
You can go back and look at the forums if you want. People did want those things, as well as many of the things you mentioned. However some of the stuff the community has asked for is beyond what is reasonable to put time behind while they are trying to make HD.
Barbatos specifically asked for weapon balance issues. Iye and ringal were making nice points, but then Makeurtgreatagain decided to, instead of discuss the weapon balance, ask for FS to roll back all the work that was done on 4.3 and instead implement a bunch of changes which have not been mentioned or asked for throughout the rest of all of the 4.3 threads. Telling FS "You are doing everything wrong, we never asked for your effort on weapons and gamemodes" is a played out Insult to the FS devs, who I'm sure have heard it thousands of times, but its still just plain mean and not helping the conversation. Guess what, we are getting new weapons and some new game modes. Rather than spend an entire post ranting about how awful the game is with these new items, why don't you discuss how to make them better like Iye and ringal.
My post before this was directed solely at makeurtgreatagain. Clearly this guy is too much of a coward to post this crap on his real account, so he has to make an alt to yell at the devs. Sure you can say "We have been asking for this or that for the past 10 years." But maybe an account that is older than 3 days would add a bit to your credibility. Not to mention your false sense of nostalgia for "the old days" which were actually measurably worse than the current versions of UrT. Nearly every iteration has made this game better, (except for the whole 4.2 early days). Yes UrT was great back in the day, but that was because of a playerbase, not so much because of any particular set of features.
/rant
kronic either you are drunk or trolling
you know better (or at least you should )
and the point stands since FS has openly said they don't have the resources to commit to maintaining the 4.x branch then meddling with the core game mechanics is bad news for everybody history has proven time and time again that when ever frozen sand messes with major changes it takes YEARS for it to get settled
fine if they are gonna commit a entire team of coders that they don't have to tuning and play testing until its a well oiled machine I have no problem with the changes but I don't trust there ability todo so history has proven otherwise
so 4.x should be left alone or brought more in line with what 4.1 was in terms of movement and balance
simply because thats the path of least effort and least likely to result in a unmitigated disaster,as HD is years away from a playable release
and you are right the changes I listed haven't been brought up in years mostly because we got sick and dam tired of our pleas falling on deaf ears
and what threads where do you see the experienced players asking for more guns I have never once seen a out cry for that(from any group of players that matters) in the 15 some on years I been playing this game and thats a line of bullshit and you know it infact every time the topic came up it was ment with open mockery by people that knew better http://www.urbanterr...n-terror-needs/
http://www.urbanterr...pon-suggestion/
(search the board for 'weapon suggestions' never once has there been a serious push for more weapons
we been toying with the idea of making the m4 different from the lr since the LR was added
same deal with laser sight being a counter for tac + smoke camping
both are two very old and nagging issues
same deal with bot support its been a issue since bots where dropped from being 'officially' supported and left to linger in limbo
and no the past sins on both sides stand, as a testament to the bullshit nobody gets a clean slate until they earn it and this applies to both party's ,and
trust and respect are earned not given just because you want it and sadly frozen sand still has a lot of clean up todo and frankly they are trying but its gonna be long long time
thats all ill say on that debate
This post has been edited by Makeurtgreatagain: 23 June 2016 - 12:47 AM
#57
KroniK
Posted 23 June 2016 - 01:25 AM
Getting back on topic, I think one of the major weapon balance issues I see is with the FRF1, and the main issue being that it is useless.
Here is my vote on what should be done with the FRF1:
The FRF1 should not have a scope. Or if it does, have it be a 1.5x zoom scope or something. Similar to the G36. Speed up the reload times a bit more than what is current. Allow it to kill with 1 shot on headshots, and kill with Just barely more than 2 shots on the torso with kevlar, such that any pistol shot, or limb shot will kill after a kevlar torso has taken 2 shots.
This creates a fairly slow TTK sniper that has no need for zoom, but can be very deadly when used with a teammate that has an auto. Some people's play styles would love a weapon like this. It would be slightly more powerful than a G36 but the reload time would make it much easier to get killed than using a G36. Plus the 1 shot headshot without a scope would be a challenge for some of the better snipers like BN.
You should get a crosshair when not ADS similar to the G36.
I think this type of weapon would make the FRF1 an actually useful weapon.
What do you guys think?
Here is my vote on what should be done with the FRF1:
The FRF1 should not have a scope. Or if it does, have it be a 1.5x zoom scope or something. Similar to the G36. Speed up the reload times a bit more than what is current. Allow it to kill with 1 shot on headshots, and kill with Just barely more than 2 shots on the torso with kevlar, such that any pistol shot, or limb shot will kill after a kevlar torso has taken 2 shots.
This creates a fairly slow TTK sniper that has no need for zoom, but can be very deadly when used with a teammate that has an auto. Some people's play styles would love a weapon like this. It would be slightly more powerful than a G36 but the reload time would make it much easier to get killed than using a G36. Plus the 1 shot headshot without a scope would be a challenge for some of the better snipers like BN.
You should get a crosshair when not ADS similar to the G36.
I think this type of weapon would make the FRF1 an actually useful weapon.
What do you guys think?
This post has been edited by KroniK: 23 June 2016 - 01:31 AM
#58
FS Frankie V
-
FS chief admin
Assets Manager & Lead Animator
- Account: frankiev
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Country:
- Joined: 10-January 10
- Posts: 2,910
Posted 23 June 2016 - 03:26 AM
KroniK, on 23 June 2016 - 01:25 AM, said:
I think this type of weapon would make the FRF1 an actually useful weapon.
What do you guys think?
Well the original idea behind adding the FRF1 was as a weapon swap for the SR8 with the same specs and not as a unique weapon addition. Another example is there are many styles of MP5's where we could have added the different frames and sounds for a different taste.
Using idtech3 it's easier to add a weapon, unique or not, than it is to add customization to a single weapon which makes it harder to sell the idea so I would agree that if the specs are not matched then should be removed as it really does not fit with the ideals of different sniper rifles based on one shot one kill.
Overall though I think it would be a good idea once 4.3 is out the door to set time aside to do a proper audit of the weapons spec instead of poking at it wit a stick. To be proper there will have to be proper documentation as to the relevant changes between 4.1 and 4.2 and controlled/scripted testing under QA testing.
doing "stuff" with dead things.
#59
FS Frankie V
-
FS chief admin
Assets Manager & Lead Animator
- Account: frankiev
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Country:
- Joined: 10-January 10
- Posts: 2,910
Posted 23 June 2016 - 03:48 AM
Makeurtgreatagain, on 23 June 2016 - 12:33 AM, said:
so 4.x should be left alone or brought more in line with what 4.1 was in terms of movement and balance
If players prefer 4.1 over 4.2-.3 then they are more than welcome to host their servers on the Q3 master server list.
This is once again a choice made server operators to either move their 4.1 server to the Q3 list or upgrade to remain with the FS list.
doing "stuff" with dead things.
#60
KroniK
Posted 23 June 2016 - 06:56 PM
Frankie V, on 23 June 2016 - 03:26 AM, said:
Well the original idea behind adding the FRF1 was as a weapon swap for the SR8 with the same specs and not as a unique weapon addition. Another example is there are many styles of MP5's where we could have added the different frames and sounds for a different taste.
Using idtech3 it's easier to add a weapon, unique or not, than it is to add customization to a single weapon which makes it harder to sell the idea so I would agree that if the specs are not matched then should be removed as it really does not fit with the ideals of different sniper rifles based on one shot one kill.
Overall though I think it would be a good idea once 4.3 is out the door to set time aside to do a proper audit of the weapons spec instead of poking at it wit a stick. To be proper there will have to be proper documentation as to the relevant changes between 4.1 and 4.2 and controlled/scripted testing under QA testing.
Using idtech3 it's easier to add a weapon, unique or not, than it is to add customization to a single weapon which makes it harder to sell the idea so I would agree that if the specs are not matched then should be removed as it really does not fit with the ideals of different sniper rifles based on one shot one kill.
Overall though I think it would be a good idea once 4.3 is out the door to set time aside to do a proper audit of the weapons spec instead of poking at it wit a stick. To be proper there will have to be proper documentation as to the relevant changes between 4.1 and 4.2 and controlled/scripted testing under QA testing.
So adding code to modify the weapon's damage/recoil/scope is more in depth than changing a few values around? Currently, I don't mind that the FRF1 is in the game, it just doesn't have any usefulness since its less powerful than the SR8 but has a much slower TTK than the PSG-1.
---
On an unrelated note, is there a chance for getting a recoil animation done for the Magnum? Currently the gun stays steady when its fired and there is no recoil animation like with the rest of the guns. I'm not sure how difficult it is to make first person animations but something fairly simplistic would be fine. It's just weird to see the gun stay static, as it is the only gun in the game that currently does not have any sort of recoil animation.
EDIT: After taking a look at the source, the animations are there but the animation.cfg for the magnum is wrong. the WEAPON_FIRE and WEAPON_FIRE_LAST variables should have the count set to 16 not 2. I have submitted this to github as an official bug report.
This post has been edited by KroniK: 23 June 2016 - 09:28 PM
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