[&one`ne0dym]

Hi guys,

I know this is a long lost topic, but I would like to revisit the matter and get some information about the current 4.2 and upcoming 4.3 versions of UrbanTerror. Have you ever implemented a tickrate to the servers and is it customizable for serveradmins? I recently started playing all weapons again, after years of SR8 only and it appears to me that there is a lot of bulletdrop compared to CounterStrike GlobalOffensive.
In the first post RaideR mentioned that a high tickrate would cause servers to struggle, since its high CPU load and massive amounts of calculations that would be required to keep track of every single bullet, but times have changed since 2006. We have better servers for less money available.

So yeah, a quick update on where we stand would be appreciated! :)

[Fragtag]

I would be careful mentioning that game here ne0 because it sometimes can get you into trouble, especially comparing urban terror towerd that game...

[BRAVO]

Hi, i know this is an old post but i foundnd this to be very interesting and i didn't know it, i would like to ask RaideR how does Lag affect hit detection (because it's clear for me it does).

I think playing with high ping is a serious disadvantage, it always seems your bullets didn't hit when they do after a delay, and sometimes happens they didn't even hit when they should have. But, i'v found many players who spend their whole time blaming the high-pinger for all their misses, even when the high-pinger was not implicated in the shotting. So.., does a high pinger ruin in any way hits for other players?, could be playing with high ping any kind of advantage like some players pretend to say?.

[FS Zenity]

BRAVO, on 15 August 2015 - 05:01 PM, said:

Hi, i know this is an old post but i foundnd this to be very interesting and i didn't know it, i would like to ask RaideR how does Lag affect hit detection (because it's clear for me it does).

I think playing with high ping is a serious disadvantage, it always seems your bullets didn't hit when they do after a delay, and sometimes happens they didn't even hit when they should have. But, i'v found many players who spend their whole time blaming the high-pinger for all their misses, even when the high-pinger was not implicated in the shotting. So.., does a high pinger ruin in any way hits for other players?, could be playing with high ping any kind of advantage like some players pretend to say?.

Your high ping can affect other players in two ways:

1) The "delayed hit" effect, when players get hit in situations they don't expect. That does not affect their hits though.

2) By causing "warping" which makes your character move less predictable and thus harder to hit. This has more to do with packet loss than high ping but is often associated with bad connections.

Generally playing with a (consistent) high ping cannot be an advantage no, but it can make the experience worse for other players and sometimes people are thrown off by it.

The best situation is always that everybody plays with a low ping, everything else is always going to be a compromise to make it as fair and fun as possible under the conditions.

[Critofur]

BRAVO, on 15 August 2015 - 05:01 PM, said:

I think playing with high ping is a serious disadvantage, it always seems your bullets didn't hit when they do after a delay, and sometimes happens they didn't even hit when they should have. But, i'v found many players who spend their whole time blaming the high-pinger for all their misses, even when the high-pinger was not implicated in the shotting. So.., does a high pinger ruin in any way hits for other players?, could be playing with high ping any kind of advantage like some players pretend to say?.

Sometimes it's so bad [to play vs a high pinger], that it's almost like cheating, to play w/a ping over 150. Not always, sometimes the high ping is still a disadvantage (as it should be!!!). It feels like more of a problem when the server has a lot of these high ping players on it (or, just a lot of players, it just feels like this game doesn't WORK properly on most servers, with more than about 6 players per side).

What's particularly bad, is high ping players moving side to side, it's like a glitch/exploit and they can avoid so many hits that they should have been taking - it can make you feel like you're shooting "ghost bullets" that have no affect.

When /SNAPS was briefly unlocked, and I could play at /SNAPS 60, ALL my hit detection problems were solved, it was like a miracle, the game play became so wonderful, I was in UrT Heaven. But then, it all came crashing down and the dream life ended, now we are forced back into the Hell that is /SNAPS 20 as the devs decided to re-lock the setting.

One thing for sure over the years - the hit detection for me, has been very inconsistent, across all versions of the game - in both 3.x and 4.x versions I've had some times where my hits were SO GOOD that it felt like I was cheating - I easily cut through 7 - 8 players in a row before being killed myself on some days, I felt like some kind of Demigod. It was not my skill, or the skill of my enemies going up or down, it was performance of the game/hits/netcode - for whatever reason, I wish so badly, that I could analyze complete what is behind when the game works well or does not.

Previous to 4.x there were some issues that do seem to have been resolved - there used to be this one player I saw all the time on Pub CTF servers named PoH. PoH was almost "hit proof" for me most of the time I played him. But, once 4.x came out, his magic power to avoid hits was GONE, and now I found him to be easy to beat, consistently. The lost of this almost magical hit-proof ability must have been discouraging - I presume that is why he quit from Urban Terror and I haven't seen him in years and years now.

This post has been edited by Critofur: 25 January 2020 - 09:29 PM

[TehReaper]

Critofur, on 25 January 2020 - 09:28 PM, said:

Sometimes it's so bad [to play vs a high pinger], that it's almost like cheating, to play w/a ping over 150. Not always, sometimes the high ping is still a disadvantage (as it should be!!!). It feels like more of a problem when the server has a lot of these high ping players on it (or, just a lot of players, it just feels like this game doesn't WORK properly on most servers, with more than about 6 players per side).

What's particularly bad, is high ping players moving side to side, it's like a glitch/exploit and they can avoid so many hits that they should have been taking - it can make you feel like you're shooting "ghost bullets" that have no affect.

When /SNAPS was briefly unlocked, and I could play at /SNAPS 60, ALL my hit detection problems were solved, it was like a miracle, the game play became so wonderful, I was in UrT Heaven. But then, it all came crashing down and the dream life ended, now we are forced back into the Hell that is /SNAPS 20 as the devs decided to re-lock the setting.

One thing for sure over the years - the hit detection for me, has been very inconsistent, across all versions of the game - in both 3.x and 4.x versions I've had some times where my hits were SO GOOD that it felt like I was cheating - I easily cut through 7 - 8 players in a row before being killed myself on some days, I felt like some kind of Demigod. It was not my skill, or the skill of my enemies going up or down, it was performance of the game/hits/netcode - for whatever reason, I wish so badly, that I could analyze complete what is behind when the game works well or does not.

Previous to 4.x there were some issues that do seem to have been resolved - there used to be this one player I saw all the time on Pub CTF servers named PoH. PoH was almost "hit proof" for me most of the time I played him. But, once 4.x came out, his magic power to avoid hits was GONE, and now I found him to be easy to beat, consistently. The lost of this almost magical hit-proof ability must have been discouraging - I presume that is why he quit from Urban Terror and I haven't seen him in years and years now.

Yeah, you're wrong. I notice no difference whatsoever in how my hits land on people based on ping. What does matter is how good the player is. This includes how well they can move in addition to aiming. I have a harder time hitting some players in particular because they're really good at not being stationary targets, not because of their ping. I've played on servers where I had 200+ ping against people that all had low ping and still had near 30% accuracy. I've also played where I'm the only low pinger and everyone else is over 200 ping and did the same. Where many people in the US get confused and blame it on ping I think, is that in general people from other countries are better than the players in the US IMO, and thus ping gets blamed instead of being honest about your skill level.

I hope a dev can chime in and explain to you why you should STFU about snaps.

[FS Frankie V]

TehReaper, on 31 January 2020 - 03:20 PM, said:

I hope a dev can chime in and explain to you why you should STFU about snaps.

Well the easy explanation is net code is voodoo magic that does not follow any form of logic based on common sense of what is usually seen as being a result with out taking into consideration a long list of variables that can not be calculated or understood with out a large sampling under controlled conditions.

Common sense says that by changing the number of snaps then network play and ping should improve but taking into consideration we are talking about net code that is over 20 years old, based on dial up at the time, the end result would be difficult to predict as to the actual output as a variable as to the desired value as a sum total, based on dial up. What might be an improvement to one would be a fail to another.

The bottom line though is to improve "personal" performance is to understanding what is occurring during practical game play that "everyone" plays under and changing tactics to accommodate the variables that would change the result as a percentage. Not to say it's not worth a try and we have done so with mixed result as expected.

I'm actually thinking of doing a blog post as to relevance of the different variables, with the help of the coding team, with more of a view of how they can be used to improve personal performance with out having to adjust the ways and means if anyone is interested.

Just to mention.

The word use "Hit Detection" means a few different things to different people and as to the original post is explained with in "context" in which it is used but for the most part is a condition/state change that with in context when the trigger is pressed the "hit" is actually calculated which only occurred 85% of the time in 4.1 ;)

To stop typing as I mentioned before the net code does not need to be "patched" but replaced but is a project I doubt FS would be willing to take on.

[[Sk&Bh]Txc]

Speaking of hit detection according to what I saw in Unreal as a performance I suggest that it might be a good idea to switch to projectile weapons .

[bloodlock]

the rate setting perceptively affect hit detection.
for a long time I though it was placebo effect, bot no, it really affects the shots you hit, and affects the hits you take also...
It vary from server to server, on some servers it works better at high values between 25000~32000, on other servers, specially the ones with more than 20 players, it works better with values between 12000~18000.
It also appears that using packetdup 3 helps with hit detection... in both ways.... so, low rate and packetdup 1 helps in dodging bullets somehow... I'm probably wrong, but It feels like that... :P

This post has been edited by bloodlock: 04 June 2020 - 11:14 PM

[FS Frankie V]

bloodlock, on 04 June 2020 - 11:12 PM, said:

the rate setting perceptively affect hit detection.
for a long time I though it was placebo effect, bot no, it really affects the shots you hit, and affects the hits you take also...
It vary from server to server, on some servers it works better at high values between 25000~32000, on other servers, specially the ones with more than 20 players, it works better with values between 12000~18000.
It also appears that using packetdup 3 helps with hit detection... in both ways.... so, low rate and packetdup 1 helps in dodging bullets somehow... I'm probably wrong, but It feels like that... :P

Well your not wrong but might lack the required information as to what happens when you press the fire button. As I mentioned in another topic what you see is in most cases is not what "has" already happened with a client serve configuration with out access to the facts that goes beyond visual ques and clues.

From FS side of things it's a frustrating issue as netcode and migration is the tada of a magic trick where the audience is tricked into a perception based on misdirection and false assumptions. If I change a rate things will improve? Maybe or maybe not but on a 20 year old game engine based on dial up more not.

This placebo effect is also compounded by the lack of less than ideal server configurations of so and so setting up a home brew server to play the game the way they want verses servers of professional grade as based on the needs of the player community.

As you say this varies from server to server so until "all" servers matches the needs and demands of the client any changes to the client is a waste of time as we would always be in a state of taking away from Peter to give to Paul.

To put it on the table the only way to even come close to fixing it is for FS to control all servers or for the community to force and enforce gold standards as to server configurations.