[psyp.Brainie]

SilverFoxZ, on 27 August 2011 - 12:28 PM, said:

I used playing bomb mode on Dust 2 almost every day. Dust 2 is a map where you can learn very fast, what the enemy could do. You just look trough the middel if you are red or trough the dubble door if you are blue, if you see alot of legs from enemy players going to the right side you know they go to a/b depends in wich team you are. Then when you know at wich bombside most enemys go there are only 2 directions the enemy can come from. both ways are great to defend if you use nades.

So in my head its like "If the enemy does this its the best to do this" basically its just a war of information. With such information its pretty easy to surprise your enemy

After months and months learning all enemy movements (and the playing styles of the other players playing on the same server) it almost looks like you Wall Hack

Deduction for the win sir ;-) !

Pubs are pubs. PCW/CW is another thing and it's more useful than a pub I think.

I've started an experiment for this heartbeat. The experiment was to watch a dude playing while a beatbox was playing with a certain cadence.
I didn't watch a lot of demos but I've gotten a good result. On 3 demos (CTF & TS) from 3 different personns (a friend of me, a known europan and a known american), they had the same result. The result is that I found a good cadence on wich these 3 players were always acting on it (acting the principal actions: shooting, jumping, walking, scoping, etc). The cadence is 75,00 BPM.
75,00 BPM is also the same cadence for a walk, a sprint jump (e.i circle jump), and it's quite near the timer (I saw that the timer isn't regular also ^^ ).
Also, I noticed that even if the player or the action isn't on time, it naturally goes back on and fits well again.

I keep having some questions.

• Could we define a speed with this? A speed is distance/time. Actually we have the time... Need to fine a distance.
  
• Now I'm thinking about the possibility to find a rythm (like, a laps of time or a kind of cycle that is always repeated during the game). Actually I'm not very sure if it could exist because the decisions (or the intentions) of the opponent still looking as random for us.
  
• Could we be out of this cadence? Is it possible to play while being accorded to another cadence?
  
• I am still searching the relation between the human heartbeat and this... I have some problems here.

I'll go ahead in watching demos (if you have some... but it needs to be yours). But I'm strongly sure that it is the same for everyone.

What's next and the utility?
As it's psychology, it's just observating a phenomenon in this game. After the observation comes the manipulation. What could it be used for, what could we do to play without it, etc.


Underlined sentences are just to help the lazy reader.

EDIT: I'll soon send an archive with the beatbox file (Hydrogene) and a *.WAV file.

This post has been edited by Brainie: 07 September 2011 - 01:59 AM

[SilverFoxZ]

It also depends on the map and the music genre i think.

I would play totally different if i would listen to metal then to dubstep etc.

[|<3|mogul]

Brainie, on 24 August 2011 - 11:53 PM, said:

1.I'm thinking about the fact that there could be a tempo in Urban. Or, each players could have their own rythm.
2.I saw that I always die at a same instant, same little moment when I'm in a duel. I noticed this thing for other players around me.
3.So I started to "count" in my head to see if a tempo could exist (4/4, 3/3... 3/3 had the best results I think).
4.I don't really know if a tempo as a musical one could work. But I saw that if I count (1, 2, 3, etc) with a speed that is equal to the speed of the walking sounds (not exacly but it's very similar), most of the principal actions fall on the good times.
5.I also tought that the own rythm of a player could be proportionnal of his heartbeat (heartbeat of the dude behind his screen). But I can't really know how to prove it and test it. So it stays as an hypothesis.
1.What do you think about it? Do you think that a player could have a rythm, and the game could have a rythm?

Very interesting hypothesis Brainie,lots of potential to look into.Nice to see the thread active!

For clarification purposes,I'll give some definitions of how certain words are used in this post:

• Rhythm- Can either mean a)Game Rhythm:A series of events during a game match as a whole which take place in a certain order (eg. Blue in the lead->Red in the lead,or something like that :s or b)Player Rhythm:The choices made by each player and how they blend into one another.(eg. spawn->rush->wait->flank->attack->retreat).Varies with each individual involved.
  
• Tempo- The speed at which the rhythm,(i.e. the events of the game) is played out.
  
• Pace- The speed at which each player reacts during each event.Some players might move between each event quite rapidly,while others move slower.I believe this is moreso dictated by play-style than weapon choice.

Interested to know how you define these terms as well.

• As far as player pace vs. game rhythm and tempo goes,my guess is that the game's rhythm depends upon each player's pace.Just how dependent is a matter of whether it's as a team (TDM,CTF,Bomb Mode etc), or individually (FFA,'solo' players etc.)
  
• Nice observation.Maybe it has something to do with each player's pace?Maybe,there exists a rock-paper-scissors hierarchy of general choices,such as flanking winning against being stationary(usually),rushing winning against flanking,and being stationary winning against rushing.Just a thought though
  
• Numbers 3 and 4 seem very complicated to test and explain verbally,as far as the method of timing used.How do you pick a suitable time signature(4/4,6/8,7/4 etc.)?
  
• "
  
• Very interesting,looking forward to what you come up with.(Not much ideas on my side I'm afraid)

Yuri, on 25 August 2011 - 02:26 PM, said:

Quote

I would say Urt is more a 6/8, 7/4 or 9/8.

Any special reason why?

Quote

If you know the map and playerspeed, you can tell where a player has gone. Players who jump a lot in game get further but get lower stamina and is forced to move slower.

Very true.Can't count the number of times I've made it to the other side of the map to knife snipers,only to get shot in the leg and promptly killed by the guys with AKs who move like they're stuck in between dimensions

Quote

For shooting - I shoot depending on the situation and change the weapon if i need to. semi - small burst for range, burst - spray if he is near me.

You're the only other guy I've seen so far who uses semi-auto

Quote

Edit: when I play a map i know good, i think in my head where player coul'd go from their spawn and approach me.
Like a big 3D picture from above with moving players.

Yup,as Silverfoxz & Brainie mentioned
(

SilverFoxZ, on 27 August 2011 - 12:28 PM, said:

After months and months learning all enemy movements (and the playing styles of the other players playing on the same server) it almost looks like you Wall Hack

Quote

I had a tought that was near your opinion. I think that the place can't be known with the speed of the player (anticipation & well deduction can make you easily know the places of the ennemi) but if you know where he would like to go (could be useful in bomb mode I think), knowing his speed could make you thinking about the most easy way to go to the needed place (because you need to adapt youself to his speed or find a way to make him changing it).Btw, speed is also important to determinate the rythm of your team, to adapt yourself to them (for rushing, camping, etc).

),
familiarity with the map,along with the routes taken by most players would affect your own pace,depending on whether you use it to draw the 3d map you mentioned,flank,directly intercept,or move past them without engaging.The latter is one of the most used techniques of a Stealth play-style.Lots of opportunity for reverse-psychology warfare

Edit:Apparently,you can run out of quote boxes.Huh.

This post has been edited by mogul: 08 September 2011 - 04:42 AM

[|<3|mogul]

Brainie, on 27 August 2011 - 04:45 AM, said:

Quote

Maybe it's a good thing to let the body's

instinct to lead you for different roles (shooting,

moving, etc). The instinct gets rarerly wrong. But

I'll recommand a moderation about it. Because you

could take some bad decisions and get killed easily

and for a health question. I remember some moments

where I've gotten scared or surprised, so the

adrenaline went and the hearbeat was very high. I'm

not sure if it's good for the health.Personnally, I

don't like this sensation

Re:Haha as Nietzsche said,what doesn't kill you makes you

stronger so maybe it helps build a tolerance to the

unexpected?This is coming from an adrenaline junkie,so

it might be a bit biased ;/
I'm taking a guess here and saying that most UrT

players,both experienced and less-experienced, do most

of their manoeuvring/shooting largely by instinct.The

difference might lie in factors such as Pub or

'formal' play,and what they intend to do with their

opponent;such as intentionally disrupting their

'rhythm' (doubling back,waiting,strafing left-to-right

when shooting) to gain the upper hand during an

encounter.Now it's to be expected that the more

experienced you are,the more you can accurately rely

on your instinct as opposed to conscious

thought,formulation and execution.Maybe it'll be worth

looking into the rhythm of players at

beginning,intermediate and expert levels of play?

Quote

For the jumpers that have the obligation to be

slow... It depdends. I saw some jumpers that were able

to move very faster and very longer all in the map.

Just a question of jumping skill I think.

Re:Hrm,this might be a topic all on its own.For the most

part,it seems to be a matter of skill,knowledge of the

map and finally,personal preference.

Will reply to the rest later (hopefully)

This post has been edited by mogul: 08 September 2011 - 04:52 AM

[psyp.Brainie]

SilverFoxZ, on 07 September 2011 - 12:04 PM, said:

It also depends on the map and the music genre i think.

I would play totally different if i would listen to metal then to dubstep etc.

Maybe the brain would be more excited by the music. So your reactions would be accorded to a certain dynamic... But it won't change your tempo in Urban Terror.

mogul, on 08 September 2011 - 04:40 AM, said:

For clarification purposes,I'll give some definitions of how certain words are used in this post:

• Rhythm- Can either mean a)Game Rhythm:A series of events during a game match as a whole which take place in a certain order (eg. Blue in the lead->Red in the lead,or something like that :s or b)Player Rhythm:The choices made by each player and how they blend into one another.(eg. spawn->rush->wait->flank->attack->retreat).Varies with each individual involved.
  
• Tempo- The speed at which the rhythm,(i.e. the events of the game) is played out.
  
• Pace- The speed at which each player reacts during each event.Some players might move between each event quite rapidly,while others move slower.I believe this is moreso dictated by play-style than weapon choice.

Interested to know how you define these terms as well.

Thank you for the terms my dear. I had some problems with it (english where are you...). Now we're based.

mogul, on 08 September 2011 - 04:40 AM, said:

• As far as player pace vs. game rhythm and tempo goes,my guess is that the game's rhythm depends upon each player's pace.Just how dependent is a matter of whether it's as a team (TDM,CTF,Bomb Mode etc), or individually (FFA,'solo' players etc.)
  
• Nice observation.Maybe it has something to do with each player's pace?Maybe,there exists a rock-paper-scissors hierarchy of general choices,such as flanking winning against being stationary(usually),rushing winning against flanking,and being stationary winning against rushing.Just a thought though
  
• Numbers 3 and 4 seem very complicated to test and explain verbally,as far as the method of timing used.How do you pick a suitable time signature(4/4,6/8,7/4 etc.)?
  
• "
  
• Very interesting,looking forward to what you come up with.(Not much ideas on my side I'm afraid)

• Hum... It's a complicated guess. We can imagine that a rythm is like a cycle. Can we have a cycle of actions/reactions in the game? I have some toughts for it but it's hard to know if it could be.
  It's not player's pace against the tempo of the game. I would say that the player's pace is influenced by the tempo of the game. Why? So why does the player always shoot exactly on the battement (75 BPM)?
  
• I like the "rock-paper-sissors" idea. It would requests a lot of observations (A dude shoots on someone, what action/reaction comes after? And after? And... etc.
  But I have a little problem with this idea... I feel Urban as offensive/defensive positions. Maybe it's a R-P-S influenced by the offensive/defensive position...
  For this point I might be wrong. I think you're near the truth with your actions figuration ("rushing against X thing wins, etc"). Could you give me more details please?
  
• I didn't get. Did you ask how to count in 3/3, 4/4 ? Musical counting has a link with the rythm. So we can't define a speed with it. It's like a mathematical way to define the cycle (rythm).

mogul, on 08 September 2011 - 04:40 AM, said:

familiarity with the map,along with the routes taken by most players would affect your own pace,depending on whether you use it to draw the 3d map you mentioned,flank,directly intercept,or move past them without engaging.The latter is one of the most used techniques of a Stealth play-style.Lots of opportunity for reverse-psychology warfare

In this case, the brain analysis the most used, the most comfortable and the most faster route that could be used by someone.

mogul, on 08 September 2011 - 04:40 AM, said:

Edit:Apparently,you can run out of quote boxes.Huh.

Dude you're pro at quotes. Lolz.

[Mod ObScUrE]

You should compare your results with this combinations, too.

UrT muted
UrT muted with music

[psyp.Brainie]

ObScUrE, on 12 September 2011 - 10:52 AM, said:

You should compare your results with this combinations, too.

UrT muted
UrT muted with music

Playing at Urt muted and check if it stills being accorded to a tempo? Same thing for Urt muted with music? I'll try it during the week.

[CMM|theRipper]

i occasionally play muted. it helps improve my reaction time a little because it forces my eyes to work overtime. theres also no distractions



http://www.unexplain...showtopic=64648


sort of a training of the eyes

This post has been edited by theRipper: 19 September 2011 - 04:31 PM

[psyp.Brainie]

Hi there,

I release this topic with something very interesting: The Art of War. A french team leader said (probably joking) that he used this book for making strategies for his team (well, it's a kind of inspiration; I don't know if it could be used word by word). So I made some researches and found some citations from it.
You'll probably laught but I found it interesting. It helped me to make some tactics or actions in competitive plays. Particulary what it said about the adaptation (~"The best way to win your opponent is to adapt yourself to him").

So I was asking myself if IRL could give a little help in game. Maybe; who knows? I think I could believe that we can find some IRL behaviors in game (execpt textchat because it already proves it lolz).

By the way, if it has been asked if psychology would help us playing Urban Terror. I can say yes. I don't think that it is special (it's easy when you want it). We can go more far than simply make strategies. I play with (or anticipate)the intentions of my opponent (no need sound after you can know the intentions of someone o/ ) for example. I also use something toughtful in the maps (where to go, better places for the team) but I don't know how it's called.

[|<3|mogul]

Quote

Dude you're pro at quotes. Lolz.

Hahah,merci bien
Sorry I couldn't reply to the rest of your posts though,it was a very interesting read.

Concerning The Art of War:

That book has received both good and bad feedback from its readers.I would post a link to the book itself,but I doubt the legality of it

Personally:

I think that most of its methods can be put to some use,once you know where you are applying it,and to what situations.

With regards to playing with sound,or without sound, it depends on the map,and game-mode.Maps such as Dressingroom can be played with one eye closed,if you know the rhythm of the gameplay.
For 'empty' or 'quiet' maps such as Eagle, your headphones/speakers better be as close to your ears as possible if you plan on staying alive.

Then there's game-mode.For co-operative types such as ctf and TS, sound is essential.FFA and team death match, not so much since the need for co-operation is either hardly necessary,or non-existent in racking up kills/not being killed.

Playing to anticipate the other player seems like a very risky play-style to me,with a high reward though.Care to say more about it?
I usually play,or try to play as neutral as possible,adapting to whatever the other person does,and adjusting accordingly,be it waiting,following,or rushing.It is far from perfect though,and not very exciting,but it works.

This post has been edited by mogul: 09 December 2011 - 02:07 PM