radiant, on 06 August 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:
Bludshot, the q3engine limits are ridiculous nowdays. That's a fact.
If you always care for those limits, you'll end up mapping close, narrow, boring maps.
It doesn't really matter if the q3 limits are 'ridiculous'. If they are too ridiculous for you, don't make maps for it. If you don't care for those limits, your map won't have good performance, which pretty much kills its chance of being played. The limits don't mean you can
never make a wide or open map, but understanding them means that when you do make something wide and open, you mitigate it by having less detail in that space, for example. Or using tricks to make it feel more open when actually you've properly sealed off the spawns for example.
radiant, on 06 August 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:
Eagle and Riyadh are far better.
Even those maps try to take into account the limits of the engine. If they didn't have the bits of optimization they have, they would perform much worse. Also, partly this thread has been about making widely accepted and used maps (which includes competition), and Eagle isn't one of them. I think it was great fun in pubs back in the day though, and that maps like that have their place. (It's actually an excellent map.) But if a new mapper wants to reach a widest audience possible, he shouldn't follow in the footsteps of Eagle. If he wants to make an Eagle-like map, then sure.
radiant, on 06 August 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:
Hopefully larger and more open maps can be supported with the help of newer cpus and gpus, balancing the q3engine problems.
This basically won't happen. The q3 engine is old. It was made in a time when processing power was done on the cpu, not the gpu. It also doesn't take advantage of multi-cores. So that means if you throw newer GPU's at it, it doesn't speed up. If you throw more cores at it it doesn't speed up. Roughly speaking, for urt, a 2.2 ghz quad core from 2010 is slower than a 2.6 ghz pentium from 2004! Urban Terror 2 might address this (well, I call urtHD urban terror 2 :p because I consider it a whole new game) but Urban Terror (4.x) can't.
The question is do you want to build a map *for this game* or for some other reason. If it's *for this game* then you would be wise to do things this game needs you to do.
radiant, on 06 August 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:
Personally i map because i play in lan with a group and i find funny to test different stuff made by myself, and creating maps that can avoid my friends complaining about unbalancing, bugs, etc.
In your case, you can pretty much do whatever you want. Your friends will play the maps you tell them to play at your lans :P My advice is for people trying to reach a large audience by making quality maps.
radiant, on 06 August 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:
I actually appreciate the good things about his maps more than some people, but, frankly, Horse-a-f is a prime example of someone who doesn't consider the engine he's making maps for. All his maps are box maps. That's not how you make a good map. But again it comes back to your goals. Horse's maps are pretty fun to play on pubs, and I think a lot of them visually look kinda neat with cool textures etc. And he obviously has skill and knowledge in radiant. Now if he just knew how to make a map he could really make some cool things ;)
Snobbyness aside, Horse's maps also show part of what I was saying, which is that the requirements for a half decent pub map are much lower than those of a truly solid and popular future classic urt map.
Rylius, on 06 August 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:
Also, kudos to BludShoT. That post is amazing and describes the situation very accurately.
You okay if I put it up on the CMM.org Wiki as some kind of introduction?
Sure. Would be cool if it was attributed to me though.