[wTf|beautifulNihilist]

I'm pretty well over the animations at this point.
I like that the average noob who points their gun at me hits me in 4.2. I've only seen veteran 4.1ers that have issues with aiming, I used to as well.
The animation synch didn't completely fix all hit issues, server lag and such still happens, but accuracy for all weapons jumped 5-10% for me and I definitely take more hits. Just losing the majority of the insane random-factor that 4.1 had with it's hit detection is reason enough for me to jump to 4.2. Aiming the crosshair directly over the target to score a hit, rather than to the right or left simply because I know the glitch in the animation puts them there did take some time to get used to, but now that I am I won't look back.

And the Colt 1911.

I do acknowledge the random bugs that show up with every new release, but we're in the 4.2.teens now and I haven't seen a server crash in a long time. And the hacks are almost completely gone.
4.1 does seem to be mildly more stable at this point, and maybe higher FPS, too but 4.2 is more fun.

This was the release that changed my mind, 4.2 is better than 4.1. It just needs more people.

I'm looking forward to the future of this dead game. You don't have to come with me.

[<PWC>YAY5637]

totally with you beautifulNihilist, you just need to get used to some things,
we also got used to the animations of 4.1, wich noone will claim to be the nonplusultra (i guess)

[GlaD-don]

beautifulNihilist, on 09 August 2013 - 09:02 PM, said:

I like that the average noob who points their gun at me hits me in 4.2. I've only seen veteran 4.1ers that have issues with aiming, I used to as well.
The animation synch didn't completely fix all hit issues, server lag and such still happens, but accuracy for all weapons jumped 5-10% for me and I definitely take more hits. Just losing the majority of the insane random-factor that 4.1 had with it's hit detection is reason enough for me to jump to 4.2. Aiming the crosshair directly over the target to score a hit, rather than to the right or left simply because I know the glitch in the animation puts them there did take some time to get used to, but now that I am I won't look back.

You realize that the average noob getting more hits with average noob aim makes skill less of a factor? Spec the average noob and look at how sloppy their aim is.

I don't know if you ever played 3.7, but there was a substantial "improvement" in hits from 3.7=>4.0. My ultimate conclusion was that I was hitting things I should not be hitting in 4.0 (and 4.1, since hit detection didn't change much, if it all, between the 2 versions). My "skill" improved by switching to 4.0. A lot of people called me a hacker, since I went from just another mid tier player to on par with some of the players in the top clans of the time, virtually overnight. This was ofc when UrT stopped requiring PB... 4.0 seemed to reward my playstyle/connection/aim with hits.

I feel like 4.2 is a similar situation. My hits in 4.2 are "better," but I don't know if they should be. I feel like they're a lot more random, even if I'm ultimately landing more hits. I feel like 4.1 rewards aim more than 4.2, but 4.2 overall gives me more hits. It's hard to describe, but I feel like there's less "feedback" in 4.2, and less correlation between what I do and what I kill. I don't notice much difference between autopilot aim and actually trying to aim. As far as I'm concerned, this means the game is more random. However, these comparisons come from public servers, as there are no NA leagues anymore=)

Would love to 1v1 some people in 4.2 and see what it's like.

[wTf|beautifulNihilist]

I understand that, and that's how I felt at first until I noticed something more important.
The thing is, in 4.1 I was NOT getting hit when I SHOULD be, and I could just circle jump around noobs all day who can now hit back.
We still have silly wiggle-dances to keep from getting hit, but it is nowhere near as useful.

I see this as improvement. I understand why you don't.

[wTf|beautifulNihilist]

To clarify:
to you it seems that the ease of scoring hits is the negative random factor.
To me the ability to "outrun" the enemy's aim by taking advantage of the de-synched animations by moving too much is the negative random factor.

Yes, by definition noobs have horrible aim, but when they place their crosshair on me and click +attack, I should be hit.
The fact that years of practice to learn the discrepancies between what is visible and what is shootable creates what seems to me an artificial advantage for the "pro".
What should be the deciding factors between the experienced and the inexperienced is movement, aim, and skill and not staring at a mirage until you can see through it.

I really did have a negative feeling at first when I found the ease of scoring hits. But when I tried rushing the enemy the way I can in 4.1, they are far more likely to hit back, and I have since learned to move better to compensate for my enemy's increase in difficulty and it makes me less lazy.
The game truly seems far less random to me. I can see the shots that hit me, and the noob randomness now comes from the noob player's erratic behaviour and not near as much the game itself. "Spray-and-pray" is not any more effective in 4.2, but AIMING actually is.

"I feel like 4.1 rewards aim more than 4.2, but 4.2 overall gives me more hits."
I do not. In 4.1, I am far more likely to land hits with the crosshair far away from the target. In fact, most hits in 4.1 are scored with the crosshair NOT on the target, but where the hit actually is. In both cases aim is vital, but in one there is a visible illusion. We are not likely to agree, these things happen.

I don't play Quake Live mostly because the game does not play with location damage, a hit in the toe is the same as a hit in the head.
I have heard that there are servers with the option enabled, but nobody uses it because the consensus is that it's too "random".
If you take away critical hits, the game loses all flavor for me.
Tribes Ascend is the fruit stripe gum of FPS, if I score a headshot I want extra damage. What's "random" to me are weapons that can never score a hit intentionally due to slow projectile rates and extremely fast movements.

This post has been edited by beautifulNihilist: 10 August 2013 - 08:32 AM

[wTf|beautifulNihilist]

[Yes, three in a row]

I'd also like to add that I acknowledge that with the improved hit detection headshots are too easy to land. I have made a suggestion to decrease head/helmet hitbox size in the QA section for a while now.

This post has been edited by beautifulNihilist: 10 August 2013 - 09:13 AM

[thelionroars]

beautifulNihilist, on 10 August 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

[Yes, three in a row]

I'd also like to add that I acknowledge that with the improved hit detection headshots are too easy to land. I have made a suggestion to decrease head/helmet hitbox size in the QA section for a while now.

Unless the hitbox is larger than the model, I think that would be a mistake. A headshot's a headshot.

[wTf|beautifulNihilist]

I know that it actually used to be larger, and if it still is it definitely does need to decrease. By width only, not height.
More like a watermelon less like a beach ball.

[Fenix]

The hitbox has the same size of the player model. You can double check using /r_shownormals 1 (requires devmap)

[FS Frankie V]

beautifulNihilist, on 10 August 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

[Yes, three in a row]

I'd also like to add that I acknowledge that with the improved hit detection headshots are too easy to land. I have made a suggestion to decrease head/helmet hitbox size in the QA section for a while now.

That would be an easy enough adjustment but the question is there a consensus that head shots are to easy or is it just a impression?

The facts of the matter though is is by changing the HM design a lot of things changed as far as weapon balance goes and in 4.1 the most skilled players would have to adjust to how they were able to be successful at winning in 4.1 as compared to the condition of the current 4.1 hitmesh that is no longer true in 4.2.

One just has to watch a few demo's or spec a highly skilled 4.1 player to see that their aiming behavior is not one you would expect to see in a FPS like Counter Strike and the volume of space being fired into would not be consider a hit in a game like CS where such a technique now used in 4.2 would be considered a miss.

Fact.

The current volume of the 4.2 hitmesh design is the same volume as being used in 4.1, including the head, where there is only about a 3-5% difference between the HM and the rendered player model.

So

The course of action for the moment is to take no action at all until the new design has time to stabilize to the point that no mater the conditions collision will occur 100% of the time when firing into mass.

Fact.

Increasing or decreasing HM volume has little effect as compared to the specification of a give weapon under ideal conditions.

That’s to say the HM does not determine a result but rather calculates a fixed value based on the weapon being used and in all situations hits “should” occur 100% of the time if and when collision is detected.

If this is true then globally “all” weapons has experienced a bump in specifications, where no fundamental adjustments were made as to how they are in 4.1, and the only way I can think of to get back to the 4.1 balance is to increase spread across the board.

Bottom line.

Yeah 4.2 is in part a different game than 4.1 not because of feature additions but due to a lot of thinks in 4.1 being fixed and working they way they should and is in part why a lot of skilled players are having their ass kicked by new players because “they” are playing the game in a manner the should produce a winning game.

If we want to attract new players to the game this is what has to happen as my first experience playing UrT, as new to the game and not to FPS, was WTF!!!