[Fredrik]

TehReaper, on 22 May 2014 - 09:25 PM, said:

The one thing to keep in mind with open source...

Good points.

[moonq3]

Ok Barbatos, I have been going through your github to find issues to work on with the server engine and updater. I assume these are the official repositories since you haven't responded to me. One reason you may find that no one is contributing to those projects is there are few issues open to work on.

The updater appears to have no issues open?

The server code has 3 linux issues open which I have looked at. All 3 are client issues, 1 which is a bug in SDL, 1 which has already been fixed by Fenix, and the last one I confirmed, examined, and concluded was in the game code (keyboard layout sprint issue).

I have been working with the server engine for a long time and personally don't know of any additional bugfixes for it at the moment.

So I wouldn't take a lack of contributions to this code as indicative of people's willingness to help. It appears to be more with the management (or lack thereof) of known issues that suggests there is little work to be done at this time with them.

-- MooN

[matt]

Barbatos, on 21 May 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

I've put the engine on Github in order to see if coders would jump in and start helping.

No, you have done it to comply with the GNU General Public License which forces you to do just that. Also having a look at the hidden https://github.com/B...r-UrbanTerror-4 which you don't even mention in this news post: It is really undocumented, raw and not polished towards attracting new contributors. We asked you to at least tag releases and remove the binaries, but you said that will disturb your internal workflow. It seems you are using it in a Dropbox way to store your stuff, not a collaboration tool.

RaideR, on 20 May 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

If you want to do opensource stuff, help there. Opensource is not better, it's another way of doing things. A way we don't want to do it. I said this 100 times, it's FS position on the matter. Matter is closed!

This way you are not really attracting freedom loving developers. Why should anyone develop this in their free-time when it is for your closed source game with a commercial company behind it. Especially when you blatantly tell people you hate an open development model. Sorry, everything I read here sounds extremely backwards and does not really make me want to stay.

This post has been edited by matt: 05 June 2014 - 06:40 PM

[FS BladeKiller]

We are not a commercial company. We make a tiny bit of money from the ads which is used to support this website and the game after paying taxes. We formed a proper company to pay these taxes. We are all just hobbyists who make this game for fun.

[FS Barbatos]

matt, on 05 June 2014 - 06:38 PM, said:

No, you have done it to comply with the GNU General Public License which forces you to do just that.

Not at all. I'm not forced to put it on Github. I could have dumped a .zip file like we were doing for years and that would have been enough to comply with the GPLv2 license.
We've put the code on Github (which is a collaborative tool in case you don't know) to show to the community coders that they can help if they want to.

The link is not hidden. It is mentioned officially on the Updater before downloading the engine and I'm pretty sure it's in the manual of the website as well.

NB: people who have the skills to help just help. They don't bitch on the forums trying to convince anyone that they are good at anything.

[moonq3]

Tried to help, nothing on github to do, said that, got no response.

[FS Barbatos]

moonq3, on 06 June 2014 - 04:30 AM, said:

Tried to help, nothing on github to do, said that, got no response.

There is never nothing to do on the engine. I've for long wanted to port the iobumpy changes to our current engine but I don't have the time. Perhaps you would be interested ? :)

[hasufell]

Barbatos, on 21 May 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

I've put the engine on Github in order to see if coders would jump in and start helping. So far they haven't. Community coders keep bitching about the Updater but I haven't seen any commit / pull request from them so far - and it is open source.

We don't see any benefit as to opening the codebase as long as we don't see coders involved in our open source projects.

See, and this is what you don't understand. I have explained this in another thread already, but let's go again.

Open Source != Open Development

A lot of people think that way... "if I dump my code on github, there should be a mass invasion of coders". Dumping the code anywhere is not really a sign of "please collaborate". Not at all. Instead you seem to already have alienated some potentially interested people here.

Open Source alone does not attract anyone. It's the way a project is managed, how it interacts with the community, how professional they are in terms of tools and contribution-friendly workflow and how they treat _potential_ contributors. Open Source is a prerequisite of this, but alone... it's not worth much.

You are not showing an attitude here that does give potential contributors a good feeling. Instead, they will contribute to projects like OpenMW, unvanquished etc which have a real Open Development workflow.

Even worse... you actually expect contributors to take the time to "prove" themselves in order to get "full" access and be able to really make a difference. No. People will just collaborate to other projects instead, unless they are ultra hardcore fans. And even those guys seem to ragequit a lot in your community.

So in the end... all this "effort" will not improve any of that, until you actually do Open Development.

This post has been edited by hasufell: 06 June 2014 - 01:41 PM

[matt]

Not sure why you expect people to help you on an updater and a forked engine for a closed source game with invite-only development. In fact you are itself a user of other Open Source projects, but I don't see any collaboration with your upstream. Not a single commit was made to https://github.com/i...hs/contributors see also https://github.com/i...ke/ioq3#credits which is of course legal, but impolite and short-sighted, because maintaining your dead end forks is eating your time and you can't profit from fixes and improvements others made. Doing Open Source right is when you engage and interact with the community, not just leech free source code.

This post has been edited by matt: 06 June 2014 - 01:58 PM

[FS Barbatos]

We're not a invite-only development team. Anyone can send his application by email to join the team.

You seem to totally misunderstand who we are. We are the development team of the game Urban Terror. I am not interested in contributing to ioquake project and I haven't made significant changes / patches that would be useful to the ioq3 team anyway.

The code that we maintain to run Urban Terror is freely available on Github and we review and accept every pull request that we receive. If you want to contribute or give advices on how to improve our workflow, do it. Just do it and stop bitching about how amateur we are. Of course we are. Urban Terror is our hobby. We learn every day and we take all good advice in consideration.