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you can camp on everymap i think
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No|Leaf|Clover's Less Drastic Idea for the SR8
#41
-SATAN- (old) 
- Joined: 13-February 04
- Posts: 146
Posted 27 April 2004 - 07:49 PM
even abbey2 can be campy but ppl always say: its a camp map, (dude the map is the map and thats final) it are the ppl that PLAY it witch camp...not the map...
you can camp on everymap i think
you can camp on everymap i think
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#42
Aarsbuds0r (old)
- Joined: 21-January 04
- Posts: 1,334
- LocationNetherlands, The
Posted 27 April 2004 - 08:58 PM
I agree with blade. Algiers in TS provides way too many campingspots. Of course, you can camp on every map like satan sais, but on algiers its realy bad.
About the sr8: What can you do about peek-a-boo sniping? Lets say Im at patio, and sr8 @ alleytimbers, shooting at me. Its almost f00king impossible to somehow attack and kill that guy. You just have to be lucky he doesnt hit you when you are trying to rush him. Its so annoying.
About the sr8: What can you do about peek-a-boo sniping? Lets say Im at patio, and sr8 @ alleytimbers, shooting at me. Its almost f00king impossible to somehow attack and kill that guy. You just have to be lucky he doesnt hit you when you are trying to rush him. Its so annoying.
#43
Blade (old)
- Joined: 07-February 04
- Posts: 926
- LocationThe Netherlands.
Posted 27 April 2004 - 09:07 PM
I still think putting a 2~3 second delay on your first zoom would help... if you REALLY wanna change it. Wich is a bad idea in general...
Don't u ppl see this, every time there is something the community bitches about, first sr8 - got nerved, then spas (forever spas) then flashnades, some more spas, now the sr8 again. Ow and the uber ump with laser and stuff, ffs get a life.
Don't u ppl see this, every time there is something the community bitches about, first sr8 - got nerved, then spas (forever spas) then flashnades, some more spas, now the sr8 again. Ow and the uber ump with laser and stuff, ffs get a life.
#44 Guest_Majic.
Posted 27 April 2004 - 09:27 PM
Ok I'm gonna repost here what I posted in QA about pretty much this same subject (obviously with secret bits taken out or 're-imagined' Planet of the Apes style)
When you say more MP on the SR8, I've seen the actual way the mp behaves on the SR8 (using QA special tools) and you see that the amount of mp on the SR8 when moving is so big that if someone hit with it whilst moving it's pure luck, (so increasing the mp wont do a spot of good.)
But if whilst moving you tap the opposite direction to stop and shot you can do it to a point where you'll be only paused momentarily for a 100 percent accurate hit.
What I was thinking was a slower decline in the MP once stopped so that the mp shrinks slower till absolute zero.
That way you'd have to get a bead on the player for a mili second or so more then usual.
Not too slow but enough to not be able to 'tap and go'.
The main issue with the SR8 is that you can stand in a dark window on something like Riyadh, zone out and just knock the other team till the cows came home.
A similar stance with a G36 or a PSG wont have the same ease as pretty much anyone and there cat can click the mouse button on a guy one time once you know which entrance he is coming from (as is the case in CTF games and door way watchers in TS).
For greater clarity of my point, and to add some more, if you look at SATANS sig:
This shot is pure and utter 100 percent Luck when you take into account the size of the mp cone which is literally a circle the size of the narrow part of the scope.
Look at it again this way:
If you removed the mp so that shot in the sig would be 100 percent accurate try the same shot (killing a guy 'scoped' whilst jumping into the water) with another scoped weapon in the game say the G36 or the PSG1 would it be harder or easier?
Of course it would be harder to pull off the kill because you would have had to track, accurately and longer, the player to get the 4 shots on target to kill the guy with the G36 or the harder 1 shot headshot (spraying for luck wouldn't help esp. scoped).
But then you could say "yes but you can use the g36 unscoped so it is more versitile" which I would say yes but what of he PSG1?
You can't use it unscoped and it would take TWO shots on target over the SR8s one.
If a guy made that same sig kill with a G36 or a PSG1 he would get instant kudos that shot with an SR8 is just dumb luck which if he did it 80 times out of 100 it would miss.
I'm not bashing the SR8 but I know some of the worlds best players are equal with all guns alot choose the SR8 cause it's just so easy to rack up kills.
When you say more MP on the SR8, I've seen the actual way the mp behaves on the SR8 (using QA special tools) and you see that the amount of mp on the SR8 when moving is so big that if someone hit with it whilst moving it's pure luck, (so increasing the mp wont do a spot of good.)
But if whilst moving you tap the opposite direction to stop and shot you can do it to a point where you'll be only paused momentarily for a 100 percent accurate hit.
What I was thinking was a slower decline in the MP once stopped so that the mp shrinks slower till absolute zero.
That way you'd have to get a bead on the player for a mili second or so more then usual.
Not too slow but enough to not be able to 'tap and go'.
The main issue with the SR8 is that you can stand in a dark window on something like Riyadh, zone out and just knock the other team till the cows came home.
A similar stance with a G36 or a PSG wont have the same ease as pretty much anyone and there cat can click the mouse button on a guy one time once you know which entrance he is coming from (as is the case in CTF games and door way watchers in TS).
For greater clarity of my point, and to add some more, if you look at SATANS sig:
This shot is pure and utter 100 percent Luck when you take into account the size of the mp cone which is literally a circle the size of the narrow part of the scope.
Look at it again this way:
If you removed the mp so that shot in the sig would be 100 percent accurate try the same shot (killing a guy 'scoped' whilst jumping into the water) with another scoped weapon in the game say the G36 or the PSG1 would it be harder or easier?
Of course it would be harder to pull off the kill because you would have had to track, accurately and longer, the player to get the 4 shots on target to kill the guy with the G36 or the harder 1 shot headshot (spraying for luck wouldn't help esp. scoped).
But then you could say "yes but you can use the g36 unscoped so it is more versitile" which I would say yes but what of he PSG1?
You can't use it unscoped and it would take TWO shots on target over the SR8s one.
If a guy made that same sig kill with a G36 or a PSG1 he would get instant kudos that shot with an SR8 is just dumb luck which if he did it 80 times out of 100 it would miss.
I'm not bashing the SR8 but I know some of the worlds best players are equal with all guns alot choose the SR8 cause it's just so easy to rack up kills.
#45
[PoD] Hitman Arias (old)
- Joined: 07-February 04
- Posts: 135
- LocationNorthern Cali.
Posted 27 April 2004 - 11:00 PM
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well after playing a ts match tonite....it further backs up the problem..it was 6vs6 ts on algiers " fast paced map". The other team " i will not name" basically 5 out of 6 of their guys carried sr8's. What made it worse is they didn't even move out of spawn and they camped behind boxes and walls. Algiers is a fast paced map..no reason why your whole team should be carrying sr8s. Getting a bit rediculous.
I was there at that match. It was against [PoD], so no problems. So what if we had SR8's? Did you stop to think that that weapon may have been the only one we were able to hit with? Besides, you guys won that match so why the complaining about teh SR8?
I think there is amisunderstanding about game modes. Team Survivor, with SURVIVOR being the key word is just that. Not about rushing madly at one another and ending up killed in less than 30 seconds. My understanding was to hunt each other down until you got the last guy, hence the 4 minute round time.
Anyways, Im not making excuses for how we play a game, we just get on and have fun with what we got. I feel that weapons are put into this game to use. If someone feels comfortable using the G36 all the time, then sobeit. Who out here has a say on what weapon to use? Apparently, that remark makes you sound like you want people to use what you feel they should use.
A sniper rifle is just what it is, a sniper rifle, not a spamming weapon where your random shot will eventually get you a headshot or something.
Play the mod, dont worry about what other people use for a weapon. It may in fact be to your advantage if they are using something you dont think they should be, but for people to criticize what others are using for thier enjoyment is just lame.
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#46
Aarsbuds0r (old)
- Joined: 21-January 04
- Posts: 1,334
- LocationNetherlands, The
Posted 27 April 2004 - 11:44 PM
Forcing people to use a certain gun, cuz theres 1 gun thats VERY ez to kill with is even lamer.
#47
[PoD] Hitman Arias (old)
- Joined: 07-February 04
- Posts: 135
- LocationNorthern Cali.
Posted 28 April 2004 - 12:47 AM
Who is forcing whom here? Are you forced to changed a weapon if someone is using an SR8? Personally, I adjust to the enemy. thats what a weapons arsenal is here for.
#48
samalander (old)
- Joined: 07-February 04
- Posts: 107
- LocationNew York
Posted 28 April 2004 - 01:36 AM
There are two things that people don't seem to have a grasp on yet, and I want to clarify these two things.
1) Overpowered vs. Easy to Use vs. Balanced
An overpowered weapon is a weapon that has a maximum killing potential which is too high. This means that people who are good with it can be too good with it, and kill everybody. An overpowered weapon is not necessarily easy to use, and may be unbalanced.
An Easy to Use weapon is a weapon that allows almost anybody to pick it up and after a few games kill people who they wouldn't otherwise be able to kill. This means that lots of people will be using the weapon on pubs, but does not necessarily mean that the weapon will be widely used in matches. An Easy to Use weapon is not necessarily overpowered, and may or may-not be unbalanced.
Balance, put roughly, is ease of use compared to power in relation to the maps and gameplay. A balanced weapon may be both overpowered and easy to use, or it may be neither. Balance is the weapon's overall relation to the game.
2) More movement penalty DOES NOT EQUAL more camping
The easiest way to demostrate this is with a video. So, have fun watching:
http://homepage.mac....ublic/sr8mp.avi
A last minute point I would like to reiterate:
because the sr8 is easy to use, there are times when you have to take an sr8 in order to beat someone else who is using an SR8. There just are, and if you think there aren't because you haven't been in one, you sir are an idiot.
This is what we mean when we say 'forced'; you could be better all around than someone you are playing against, but BECAUSE THE SR8 IS EASY TO USE, if the person you are playing against selects it, they may force you to use the SR8 if you want to win.
Other than that, Arias you have a very good point about team survivor. I personally despise team survivor BECAUSE of that fact, but I agree with you and I think you guys were indeed playing to win.
1) Overpowered vs. Easy to Use vs. Balanced
An overpowered weapon is a weapon that has a maximum killing potential which is too high. This means that people who are good with it can be too good with it, and kill everybody. An overpowered weapon is not necessarily easy to use, and may be unbalanced.
An Easy to Use weapon is a weapon that allows almost anybody to pick it up and after a few games kill people who they wouldn't otherwise be able to kill. This means that lots of people will be using the weapon on pubs, but does not necessarily mean that the weapon will be widely used in matches. An Easy to Use weapon is not necessarily overpowered, and may or may-not be unbalanced.
Balance, put roughly, is ease of use compared to power in relation to the maps and gameplay. A balanced weapon may be both overpowered and easy to use, or it may be neither. Balance is the weapon's overall relation to the game.
2) More movement penalty DOES NOT EQUAL more camping
The easiest way to demostrate this is with a video. So, have fun watching:
http://homepage.mac....ublic/sr8mp.avi
A last minute point I would like to reiterate:
because the sr8 is easy to use, there are times when you have to take an sr8 in order to beat someone else who is using an SR8. There just are, and if you think there aren't because you haven't been in one, you sir are an idiot.
This is what we mean when we say 'forced'; you could be better all around than someone you are playing against, but BECAUSE THE SR8 IS EASY TO USE, if the person you are playing against selects it, they may force you to use the SR8 if you want to win.
Other than that, Arias you have a very good point about team survivor. I personally despise team survivor BECAUSE of that fact, but I agree with you and I think you guys were indeed playing to win.
#49
[PoD] Hitman Arias (old)
- Joined: 07-February 04
- Posts: 135
- LocationNorthern Cali.
Posted 28 April 2004 - 02:18 AM
Thanks for teh comments Samalander. Of course we were trying to win. Its just that I dont consider myself a good SR8 user. Hell, I cant hit with most of teh weapons in the arsenal. But, yet, the SR8 gave me a better advantage than say people using the LR300 and shooting me in the head from waaay out yonder in teh map.
Anyways, the point is that its a game. Balance or no balance. All our guys are in it for teh fun factor since we gave up trying to "tweak" our cfg's for teh sake that it was causing nothing but headaches for us. We do have good players, no doubt. But to try and win at something that for us right now is as close to impossible, was not worth losing the enjoyment of the game. We're not winning cash for winning a match, only ego's.
Some people have mastered the SR8, true. So penalizing someone for mastering a weapon is wrong. Some people have mastered the LR, G36 etc. Hell, a while back we played some guys that seemed to have mastered the pistols!
Again, its all about enjoyment for me, so dont penalize all of us into a group considered "easy to use" if we actually do have trouble using some of the weapons. There are days when an SR8 user can be overtaken, simply by a surprise attack. In essence, if you were to put this into a real life situation, you would never even se a sniper, much less get close to him. In this game, you do have the chance to sneak up on a sniper. In matches, your teammates can tell you where he was or where he shot from.
What was this about again?
Anyways, the point is that its a game. Balance or no balance. All our guys are in it for teh fun factor since we gave up trying to "tweak" our cfg's for teh sake that it was causing nothing but headaches for us. We do have good players, no doubt. But to try and win at something that for us right now is as close to impossible, was not worth losing the enjoyment of the game. We're not winning cash for winning a match, only ego's.
Some people have mastered the SR8, true. So penalizing someone for mastering a weapon is wrong. Some people have mastered the LR, G36 etc. Hell, a while back we played some guys that seemed to have mastered the pistols!
Again, its all about enjoyment for me, so dont penalize all of us into a group considered "easy to use" if we actually do have trouble using some of the weapons. There are days when an SR8 user can be overtaken, simply by a surprise attack. In essence, if you were to put this into a real life situation, you would never even se a sniper, much less get close to him. In this game, you do have the chance to sneak up on a sniper. In matches, your teammates can tell you where he was or where he shot from.
What was this about again?
#50
samalander (old)
- Joined: 07-February 04
- Posts: 107
- LocationNew York
Posted 28 April 2004 - 02:24 AM
The thing is, Arias, that the proposed change would only effect the 'ease of use' part.
it would NOT noticeably decrease the power of the weapon, which means people who are truly good with the sr8 will still be able to use it well. What the change would do is make it harder for the people who aren't good with the sr8 currently but can kill with it because it is such an easy gun to use.
Therefore, I don't see why it's not fair to players who have spent time learning how to use it; if they are as good as they say, they will be able to use it just fine either way.
it would NOT noticeably decrease the power of the weapon, which means people who are truly good with the sr8 will still be able to use it well. What the change would do is make it harder for the people who aren't good with the sr8 currently but can kill with it because it is such an easy gun to use.
Therefore, I don't see why it's not fair to players who have spent time learning how to use it; if they are as good as they say, they will be able to use it just fine either way.
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